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Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

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Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#21

Post by npfmn »

lmm wrote: post #12
npfmn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of women to take the stand? Isn't it the responsibility of the people making unprofessional advances to stop and silent bystanders to tell them so? Why is a professional conference ever even thought of as a venue for making advances? I don't understand why you think this is not sexism.

As a bystander who becomes aware of such behaviour of course it's your responsibility to get involved. But if we're talking, as the article does, about a woman and one man alone in an elevator, and that man happens to be an asshole, what can the rest of us realistically do to prevent this happening?

As the article says: "Be better about putting guidelines in place to show zero tolerance for harassment or inappropriate behavior. Train your staff to be on the lookout and how to handle situations. Respect female attendees by not letting booth babes walk the expo floor and not hanging women from your ceiling and calling it entertainment."

It's about creating a positive environment. Of course there will be isolated incidents, but can we really resign ourselves to doing nothing?

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#23

Post by npfmn »

chc wrote: post #16
npfmn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of women to take the stand? Isn't it the responsibility of the people making unprofessional advances to stop and silent bystanders to tell them so? Why is a professional conference ever even thought of as a venue for making advances? I don't understand why you think this is not sexism.

> Isn't it the responsibility of the people making unprofessional advances to stop Well, yes, but if your plan to stop sexism is something along the lines of "Wait for jerks to suddenly become good people," you're doing a disservice to their victims. > and silent bystanders to tell them so I don't feel like it is my business to step in and speak for a woman who has not implicitly or explicitly asked me to do so. That…

I don't see why it's degrading for a victim to have someone else (publicly or privately) tell their agressor to stop.

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#24

Post by coldtea »

eightpersimmons wrote: post #5
superflit wrote: post #2

I do think sexism exist, but I think the MAJOR problem is as...ole men. I am not a full gentleman but let's think: 1) I think some woman attractive. I will not touch her as first move or even approach or stand too near. 2) There is better ways to extend the conversation instead of inviting to my 'bedroom'. 3) No or other excuses means no, thanks and farewell. 4) conferences are professional places, no place for flirt…

Lack of manners and as..ole men are enabled by a sexist environment. These are symptoms of an underlying problem. Women don't feel safe in these environments because of the behavior of a relatively small number of individuals, but these individuals are enabled by a system problem in which their behavior is rationalized and ignored as just s social faux pas.

>Women don't feel safe in these environments

Women don't feel safe in tech conferences? Like it's south central Los Angeles or something?

I've attended several tech conferences, with women colleagues and friend, and I've not seen all this hoopla people constantly bring up on HN. Heck, those things don't even happen on Linux and OSS conferences, much less in business tech meetings. Groping a woman? WTF have you witnessed that?

I don't know, maybe it's that conferences in Europe are different.

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#26

Post by npfmn »

superflit wrote: post #19
npfmn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of women to take the stand? Isn't it the responsibility of the people making unprofessional advances to stop and silent bystanders to tell them so? Why is a professional conference ever even thought of as a venue for making advances? I don't understand why you think this is not sexism.

I do not think that it is sexism BECAUSE it is SEXUAL HARASSMENT or even sexual abuse in some conditions. Sexism is when you are promoted or NOT promoted because you are a WOMAN. Or someone ask a WOMAN to CLEAN some spilled coffee because she is a WOMAN...

Sexual harassment and sexual abuse are encouraged by sexist culture.

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#27

Post by Hairy_Sandwich »

There is nothing in the article (IMO) that is unique to the tech sector. These complaints could be made of men in general anywhere in any industry or context. Some guy can put a hand on your knee at the home show too, but not a lot of men go to those events (I assume, I wouldn't know since I don't go to them either).

However, there will always be a set of socially retarded people, there will always be horny people, and there will always be people who posses both attributes at the same time. There are a lot of socially awkward people in tech, I don't know what you can do about this problem.

If you have an attractive physique as a woman, and you wear clothes that don't hide or minimize this fact, then men will notice, and some will comment on it, and some will even be inappropriate about it. As a remedy the women should get mad, she should tell them off. However you could even make inappropriate comments punishable by DEATH. I guarantee that not even the death penalty will stop inappropriate comments, or some guy putting a hand on your knee type of stuff. Even if the women wore a burqua, that wouldn't stop it, some guy would find that hot, "hey baby, what's under the burqua?". I don't have the answer, I don't think there is an answer. Possibly when these issues occur the women are reacting politely when they should react angrily so the offender gets the correct feedback often enough to realize that he is the problem.

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#28

Post by RyanMcGreal »

jroseattle wrote: post #14

The characterization of this as an industry issue is a red herring. This is a societal issue; the fact we're in the tech industry is simply a commonality.

It's considerably worse - both more prevalent and less acknowledged - in the tech industry than elsewhere.

Re: Sexism In Tech: We’re Not Making It Up

#30

Post by danso »

lisabarone wrote: post #15
danso wrote: post #8

I'm disappointed that this post focuses on an incident of groping. Not because the incident is "not a big deal" or that it's isolated, but because it's the type of incident that nearly everyone can agree is beyond the pale and should never be tolerated by society. Even sexists. I think the more prevalent problem is the underlying sexism, the institutional bias, the reluctance to speak up, the fear of being judged "th…

I think it's all connected. There are many reasons you don't see women speaking at tech conferences. Some is because they're passed over as non-members of the boys club. Some is because they don't want to attend and be part of the environment. I've had far worse things happen to be at tech shows - there's one I avoid altogether after being sexually assaulted in a hotel room - but like you said, there's a reason women…

Undoubtedly it's all connected in a feedback loop. I guess what I'm simply saying is that the problem of unwanted touching "can be solved" (or at least, ostracized into obscurity), and yet the underlying sexism can persist -- and, in one sense, be affirmed ("Hey I'm can't be a sexist, I never would just touch a random woman) -- and cause the same negative impact: the lack of women participation in conferences and in the tech field (or rather, society in general)
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