Is speed reading really possible? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#91

Post by loopdoend » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

The whole eye-moving thing is a complete waste of time and effort. The real trick to speed reading is RSVP[1], rapid serial visual presentation.

In RSVP the words or small groups of words are flashed in extremely fast succession without the need for the reader to move their eyes at all.

I use iRSVP on my iPhone to read books from my Calibre library and my reading speed has never been higher. It's not for everyone and requires a high degree of concentration, but it enables me to read and understand books much faster that I would have been able to otherwise.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_serial_visual_presentatio...

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#92

Post by cpleppert » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:08 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #71

Wow. That was well worth a read, at whatever reading speed gives you full comprehension. The author did a good job of reading the previous scientific literature on the subject, and relating important issues to one another. He examined both historical claims (supposed world records of reading speed) and scientific claims (statements about how people read in general). I read quite a few books about speed-reading when I…

Well, up until recently people didn't read silently but always read out loud even by themselves. Saint Augustine remarked how taken aback he was by someone who read 'silently.' The propensity seems to have been that all reading didn't just involve subvocalization it was actually vocalized. I'm not sure that this proves much in terms of whether subvocalization is always involved. This simply may be a result of people learning to read much later (if at all)before the modern age and have decode the words into a vocalized step to aid comprehension.

I'm not sure I follow your claim that "all writing systems...are systems for writing out speech." I agree that "most written characters are based on the SOUND of spoken morphemes" but this isn't by itself proof of how written language is processed by the brain. Certainly ideographic cuneiform counts as writing just as much as modern english. As writing grew more complex we can see a shift in every culture that started out with ideographic representation to move to a system much more dependent on morphemes. But in every case, the shift is gradual and subsumes elements of the purely ideographic writing, proving that the early ideographic writing was seen as just as much a language as the newer script that includes phonetic elements. We do after all, use a language defined by phonetic features.

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#93

Post by brass9 » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:12 PM UTC

Speaking of speed reading, the current layout of HN is not optimal for reading. Main content width is way too long which makes of long sentences. Font size is too small - so you're forced to zoom in.

Perhaps PG could think about improving readability of the site.

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#94

Post by dudurocha » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:13 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #47

> You can't read without subvocalization. While this article seems well researched, I find this claim very hard to believe. I can read while singing (not a song with words, but a tune that I know well, without words). I really don't think I "talk to [myself] so quietly, it cannot be heard" and while my "tongue and vocal chords" may "receive speech signals from [my] brain", I'm pretty sure they're not executed and nei…

If anybody is deaf, how can he read?

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#95

Post by mistercow » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:17 PM UTC

emhart wrote: post #37

Around the point in the article describing the eye movements required for reading, I experienced a weird anxiety as I attempted to both perceive my own eye movements and consume more of the text. After a few sentences it actually became uncomfortable. Gave me the impression that implementing speed reading strategies would be dubious for me, personally.

I have this sort of problem all the time, and I wonder if it is due to a Problem. For example, if I become aware of my blinking (like if someone does the "manual blinking" trick on me ... ... damn it), then I become anxious and uncomfortable until I can be sufficiently distracted from thinking about it.

Another one is eye contact; I generally don't have a problem making eye contact during conversation, but if I start thinking about it, I become aware that I can only look at one eye at a time and, I get a similar feeling of anxiety and discomfort. I can't decide whether to focus on one eye, switch between them (and at what rate?), or stare past the person, "magic eye" style so they look like a triclops.

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#96

Post by JDShu » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:22 PM UTC

unavoidable wrote: post #68

bambax wrote: post #47

> You can't read without subvocalization. While this article seems well researched, I find this claim very hard to believe. I can read while singing (not a song with words, but a tune that I know well, without words). I really don't think I "talk to [myself] so quietly, it cannot be heard" and while my "tongue and vocal chords" may "receive speech signals from [my] brain", I'm pretty sure they're not executed and nei…

Proof that you can read without subvocalization are ideographic languages such as Chinese (especially the traditional variety), where the written text and the 'vocalization' are not directly related - it is possible to understand a passage of text based on the relation of the characters to each other and the appearance of characters themselves (e.g. the radicals used and the parts within) without actually knowing how…

Even if you don't know how to pronounce a word, you might subvocalize (I do) using an incorrect pronunciation.

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#97

Post by abentspoon » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:30 PM UTC

loopdoend wrote: post #91

The whole eye-moving thing is a complete waste of time and effort. The real trick to speed reading is RSVP[1], rapid serial visual presentation. In RSVP the words or small groups of words are flashed in extremely fast succession without the need for the reader to move their eyes at all. I use iRSVP on my iPhone to read books from my Calibre library and my reading speed has never been higher. It's not for everyone and…

If you've had good luck with RSVP on your phone, I built a RSVP bookmarklette[1] a while back for reading articles on the web. I never had much luck reading with it, but it might be useful if RSVP works for you.

[1] http://qwerjk.com/force-feed

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#98

Post by nhebb » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:37 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #71

Wow. That was well worth a read, at whatever reading speed gives you full comprehension. The author did a good job of reading the previous scientific literature on the subject, and relating important issues to one another. He examined both historical claims (supposed world records of reading speed) and scientific claims (statements about how people read in general). I read quite a few books about speed-reading when I…

> Don't worry about fancy eye movements too much, and don't worry about subvocalization too much.

I took a speed reading class back in the 80's, and it focused on these techniques. I gave up. I found that I was concentrating so much on trying to move my finger fast and not subvocalize that I lost focus on the activity at hand - reading.

I was an engineering major, and the techniques weren't practical for my academic reading. When reading fiction and non-academic work, it took the joy out of reading. What was the point of reading a novel fast if I didn't enjoy it.

For my academic reading, i did a little self analysis. I found my biggest hurdle to reading quickly with high comprehension was concentration. After 10-15 minutes my mind tended to wander. It's an endurance exercise, and my brain is no marathon runner. So instead of trying to block out an hour or two for reading, I would break it up into shorter stints and try to focus very hard.

It turns out this works out well for reading programming books. I do not want to read a full book front to back without going over to the computer and trying it myself. Otherwise, you end the book thinking you understand everything but realize that stuff way back in chapter 3 is a bit fuzzy.

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#99

Post by emhart » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:55 PM UTC

mistercow wrote: post #95

emhart wrote: post #37

Around the point in the article describing the eye movements required for reading, I experienced a weird anxiety as I attempted to both perceive my own eye movements and consume more of the text. After a few sentences it actually became uncomfortable. Gave me the impression that implementing speed reading strategies would be dubious for me, personally.

I have this sort of problem all the time, and I wonder if it is due to a Problem. For example, if I become aware of my blinking (like if someone does the "manual blinking" trick on me ... ... damn it), then I become anxious and uncomfortable until I can be sufficiently distracted from thinking about it. Another one is eye contact; I generally don't have a problem making eye contact during conversation, but if I start…

Hah, the triclops comment made me chuckle. And don't read too much into this, as I doubt it is at all an appropriate indicator, but I should disclose that I actually have an anxiety disorder. Particularly in conversation I will sort through conversational trees and actively analyze the dialog I am having, as it is happening.

It can be both maddening and very useful. But more than anything it makes you realize how comfortable you are with those closest to you, because all that overlaid mapping and planning fades away into actual casual conversation.

Veering far off topic now though!

Re: Is speed reading really possible?

#100

Post by diminoten » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 6:00 PM UTC

Claudus wrote: post #60

When I was younger I took a reading test and scored just over 1,000 words per minute with 100% retention. I remember reading an article that there were 3 types of readers. Readers who sub-vocalize the words Readers who "hear" the words Readers who "see" words Not sure if that's an accurate assessment, but I definitely don't sub-vocalize. If I sub-vocalized, I think would at least some general idea how to pronounce un…

I am very much a sub-vocalizer, and I have no idea how to pronounce a lot of fantasy words. What I find I do is I just don't sub-vocalize that word. I don't even think about it, I just don't have a way of pronouncing the word, so I "skip" it. Subsequently, I honestly couldn't tell you, were we to have a conversation about that story, what that word was. My comprehension of names I can't sub-vocalize is dismal compared to my comprehension of a) names I can and b) larger story concepts and whatnot that I can largely sub-vocalize.

When reading Crime and Punishment in school, I remember specifically saying, "I have no idea how to pronounce a whole bunch of stuff in here and I'm going to need to talk about it, so I'm going to specifically come up with a pronunciation." Without that conscious effort, I simply wouldn't have tried to vocalize the names whatsoever, despite that being my standard method of reading.

And to be clear, I can not sub-vocalize, but it's just... uncomfortable.