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The MS Surface Pro

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Re: The MS Surface Pro

#121

Post by nfmangano »

10char wrote: post #3

I'm still a bit disappointed that Apple has yet to add a Wacom layer to their devices. It's so unquestionably better at doing writing, sketching, and note-taking than crudely smudging your fingers. iPads still fail pretty hard at being useful during math class. I had an old-style swivel tablet (Windows Vista?), and it was a fantastic device to take notes on, invaluable for classwork. OneNote + pen-input really seemed…

I'm quite happy with my android based galaxy note, which has replaced my moleskin notebook for taking notes while coding and drafting designs.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#122

Post by ygra »

Felix21 wrote: post #55

One article with a meaningful use-case and i am very tempted to buy the the Surface Pro. I think this is where Apple's marketing Excels over Microsoft's. Apple will show you use-cases like this all day long, showing you how their products are a better tool to get your job done. Microsoft on the other hand -"it has more memory", "USB", "its Powerful", "hd screen", "it runs excel", "side by side apps", "YAWN". Great ar…

Actually, the Surface Pro commercial (http://youtu.be/tr3dFSzh1yU) shows some stylus usage and has nothing of "more memory", "USB", "powerful" or "side-by-side apps". There is a bit of Excel though, I think.

Still, it doesn't exactly present why you would want to have such a device, except for dancing in a meeting room.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#123

Post by rtkwe »

mtgx wrote: post #113

Galaxy Note 10.1 also has a Wacom stylus that has 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity. I see most people here weren't even aware of it. And I think it only costs like $400 now, if you're interested in drawing and Sketchbook. The Surface Pro stylus doesn't work on Photoshop anyway, so you're not losing anything, if you're just interested in drawing.

The Photoshop issue on the Surface is (presumably) just a driver issue and will be resolved shortly. Also having the whole of the Windows program library is a huge plus for the Surface. I've yet to see a truly viable solution for developing on an android tablet, SSHing to a remote server is sort of there but having a fully featured IDE is miles above in terms of usability. Also the keyboard integration seems much slicker with the Surface.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#124

Post by dublinben »

shuzchen wrote: post #8
10char wrote: post #3

I'm still a bit disappointed that Apple has yet to add a Wacom layer to their devices. It's so unquestionably better at doing writing, sketching, and note-taking than crudely smudging your fingers. iPads still fail pretty hard at being useful during math class. I had an old-style swivel tablet (Windows Vista?), and it was a fantastic device to take notes on, invaluable for classwork. OneNote + pen-input really seemed…

Yeah, I had a tablet computer back before Apple redefined what tablet meant. It was a Fujitsu machine and OneNote with a wacom pen was definitely a really nice way to take notes in class. However, while I am excited by the machines that are coming out nowadays (surface pro, thinkpad helix to name a few) that will give me both the tablet and laptop experience, I'm dismayed that they're going the way of apple in terms…

The Thinkpad X230t has a removable battery, Wacom digitizer, and is just as serviceable as any other Thinkpad.

I highly recommend it if you're in the market for that kind of device. They've only gotten better as more companies discover the power of tablet PCs.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#125

Post by ygra »

interpol_p wrote: post #102
T-Winsnes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no, it should be transparent as in the app shouldn't be broken because someone has set their DPI to be different than usual. This becomes especially important when you have an application that can run on different devices with high and low DPI. Also, the 150% DPI setting is an accessibility feature for people with bad eye sight. All apps on windows desktop should support it. If your app doesn't, and setting i…

If it's an accessibility feature only — and might break apps — then it shouldn't be the default setting on the Surface Pro. In a well designed operating system the application should not have to explicitly handle arbitrary DPI settings for correct touch/pointer input. An unsupported application should simply look blurry if it does not provide correct raster assets for the specified DPI. That's it.

The problem is that some applications tell the OS "Hey, I do support that" and they might even work fine for 125 % but fail for 150 (our product at work falls in that category). Basically everything you draw yourself on a pixel-based device context needs to be dpi-aware and people make mistakes, applications advertise capabilities that aren't there and not enough testing is being done.

I can imagine though, that fixing that is now fairly high on their issue list. And Windows has used an automatically-determined scaling factor (based on display dpi) since Windows 7 so it's not exactly new.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#126

Post by corresation »

pmelendez wrote: post #99
raganwald wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Childish? I feel old, stuck in world where HN was civil and we didn't abuse each other with accusations of childishness. I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap. The review specifically states that he did experience it running too hot for his comfort. I read that the surface pro is 2 lbs, while a full-sized iPad is less than 1.5 lbs. Nowhere did I state…

>"I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap." They are not running portal 2, league of legends or sketchbook either. Those are natural trade-offs where Apple sacrifices productivity and Microsoft sacrifices portability.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/sketchbook-pro-for-ipad/id36...

Nonetheless I certainly don't agree with raganwald. They seem to believe that there are two options of which one must win. In actuality there are thousands of options, and all of them can win in their niche.

In this case it's a guy who sketches online comics. I appreciate their review and completely get where they're coming from, but the things that are valuable to them are not at all valuable to me.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#127

Post by glhaynes »

josteink wrote: post #85
dhruvmittal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's been incredibly anti-stylus in the past, if I recall correctly. Didn't Jobs say something along the lines of "if your tablet uses a stylus, you're doing it wrong" at the genesis of the iPad? Although we've seen that isn't necessarily the case, I can't see Apple eating their words in this case. Especially not with the success and visibility of Samsung's Note line.

While I agree with your comment in general, did you really need to make the launch of the iPad an event of religious proportions, as in "the genesis of the iPad"? Sorry about the nitpick, but stuff like this gets on my nerve.

"Genesis" just means a beginning or origin.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#128

Post by protomyth »

tripzilch wrote: post #79
raganwald wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that, what I said was that Apple's vision is that there's a market for tablets and that iPad will thrive as long as there's a market for tablets. Thrive as in 90%? 70%? 40%? 320% but 50% of the profit? Who knows. But I don't define the tablet market as iPad and only iPad. And it's possible that Apple is wrong and that there isn't a tablet market. Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and…

> the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop Or maybe the iPad is a terrible Surface Pro :-P But seriously: > Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on and have to…

> Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on

Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional committee.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#129

Post by jcampbell1 »

A bit off topic, but can someone comment on how the stylus works? I assume the "pressure sensitivity" comes from a sensor in the pen, and is wirelessly relayed back to the device (bluetooth?). Is there something else that makes it more accurate than capacitive multi touch?

Is it possible to put a pressure sensitive stilus on an iPad with bluetooth and app support, or do you need different hardware?

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#130

Post by cnahr »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #129

A bit off topic, but can someone comment on how the stylus works? I assume the "pressure sensitivity" comes from a sensor in the pen, and is wirelessly relayed back to the device (bluetooth?). Is there something else that makes it more accurate than capacitive multi touch? Is it possible to put a pressure sensitive stilus on an iPad with bluetooth and app support, or do you need different hardware?

Different hardware. The Surface Pro (and the Sony Vaio Duo which is the other Windows 8 convertible with a Wacom stylus) include an additional dedicated sensor grid for the stylus. The iPad and most other tablets (including Surface RT) can only use a capacitive stylus that emulates finger taps, and therefore is relatively inaccurate.
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