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The MS Surface Pro

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Re: The MS Surface Pro

#61

Post by ohwp »

raganwald wrote: post #52

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great…

"Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine."

Common, this is so childish... As if other devices don't get hot and don't weight that much.

You are very wrong in thinking that company X will take over the world. There are different people with different needs. Hipsters like hip devices, cartoonists like Surface Pro's.

jacquesm points it out: the iPad market might still be the biggest but it's not the only market.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#62

Post by InclinedPlane »

raganwald wrote: post #52

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great…

Both visions are likely correct, to a degree. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a "post-PC" world is one without keyboards and mice or open platforms. However, there are obviously many fundamental improvements to personal computing that have been made in the mobile space (multi-touch UI, fully OS managed application lifecycles, simplified visual elements, etc.) but the idea that the way the iPad happens to work today should be the model for all future computing is a bit ridiculous.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#64

Post by raganwald »

ohwp wrote: post #61
raganwald wrote: post #52

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great…

"Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine." Common, this is so childish... As if other devices don't get hot and don't weight that much. You are very wrong in thinking that company X will take over the world. There are different people with different needs. Hipsters like hip devices, cartoonists like Surface Pro's. jacquesm points it out: the iPad market mig…

Childish? I feel old, stuck in world where HN was civil and we didn't abuse each other with accusations of childishness.

I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap. The review specifically states that he did experience it running too hot for his comfort. I read that the surface pro is 2 lbs, while a full-sized iPad is less than 1.5 lbs.

Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world. In fact, I stated that the market for people who want a laptop and a tablet may be wll-served by the Surface Pro rather than a laptop plus a tablet.

Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#65

Post by raganwald »

jacquesm wrote: post #53
raganwald wrote: post #52

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great…

It's been a while since the tablet market was defined as 'iPad'.

I didn't say that, what I said was that Apple's vision is that there's a market for tablets and that iPad will thrive as long as there's a market for tablets. Thrive as in 90%? 70%? 40%? 320% but 50% of the profit? Who knows.

But I don't define the tablet market as iPad and only iPad. And it's possible that Apple is wrong and that there isn't a tablet market. Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces.

This might just be a phase, just as PDAs were a phase until smartphones subsumed their functionality.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#66

Post by DeepDuh »

p3rs3us wrote: post #54
raganwald wrote: post #52

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great…

Personally I would go for single device that does everything I need. Something on the lines of what Ubuntu is doing. Even Surface to an extent solves this issue. I don't want to carry an iPhone to call/msg/listen to music, an iPad to casually use internet/read/play games and a laptop for everything else. Better carry one phone which does call/msg/music/internet,reading and minor editing/office stuffs when plugged to…

After owning an iPad mini I have to say that an as-light-as-possible 7'' tablet appears to be one more device that's very useful have / bring along. It allows you reading / media consumption on a device with a satisfying screen size that's as light as a medium paperback book, i.e. you can hold it for extended periods without getting tired.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#67

Post by dbaupp »

jmspring wrote: post #13
Bockit wrote: post #11

It's nice to hear this kind of device review from a corner you don't usually hear it from. Rather than the usual kind of review broken up into the usual sections, maybe a storage, space, benchmarks, screen, software kind of thing, we have a guy who has specific use cases for it talking about how he used it for those cases, what worked and what didn't. And then comparing it to how he normally does those kinds of activ…

I think the better summary is -- "great to hear a device review from outside the echo chamber". I'd like to see other non-tech specific reviews of Surface Pro (and similar hardware). All too often, we focus on what is most relevant to our own particular use cases. Looking at possible Win8 laptops, I'm wanting something comparable to my MBA -- decent SSD storage and ram for development (8gig) -- a few options there, b…

I've been looking for a new laptop recently and the Asus UX31A seems to crop up often, and there is a Touch version (I haven't actually used either the touch or non-touch versions so this is a bit of a pointless comment).

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#68

Post by T-Winsnes »

interpol_p wrote: post #36
T-Winsnes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would look at it the other way. Why is the app so broken that it doesn't have support for multiple DPIs?

The app shouldn't know about the DPI being used by the OS. It should be completely transparent to the app — this is not the app's responsibility.

Yes and no, it should be transparent as in the app shouldn't be broken because someone has set their DPI to be different than usual. This becomes especially important when you have an application that can run on different devices with high and low DPI.

Also, the 150% DPI setting is an accessibility feature for people with bad eye sight. All apps on windows desktop should support it. If your app doesn't, and setting it to 150% breaks your app, it's you fault for not spending the resources to support it. It might be a business decision, and that's cool, but it's still your choice. Can't blame it on anyone else.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#69

Post by JuDue »

joshschreuder wrote: post #28
dhruvmittal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's been incredibly anti-stylus in the past, if I recall correctly. Didn't Jobs say something along the lines of "if your tablet uses a stylus, you're doing it wrong" at the genesis of the iPad? Although we've seen that isn't necessarily the case, I can't see Apple eating their words in this case. Especially not with the success and visibility of Samsung's Note line.

"It's like we said on the iPad, if you see a stylus, they blew it." http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-... See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMg

Yes.

And this refers to the interface.

In the past there were touch interfaces that were fiddly and required a pen to interact.

Jobs believed that was a poor interface.

For example, the new Office 365 for Windows still has loads of awkwardly sized buttons and drop downs, making it difficult to use via touch.

Some reviews have pondered how seriously MS is taking touch interfaces. But maybe this is why the Surface Pro comes with a stylus...

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#70

Post by robotmay »

It was great to see him mention how well Civilisation V is supported on it. I love that game, and hearing that it runs so well on the Surface Pro would probably be the tipping point for me if I had the money spare to spend on one.
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