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Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

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11–20 of 95 posts

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#11
post #6

I'm trying to keep the Orwellian thoughts out of my head, but this skips a few steps of creepiness for me. Is this even deemed legal/illegal?

We live in a nation which likes civil rights in the abstract but not in the implementation. This causes us all to lose.

A plurality exists to clamp down on many freedoms. Use cases to deny first amendment rights are popularized - heck our biggest media companies built on the back of the first amendment now wish to see it neutered. Gun rights folks want the Obama administration to pursue second amendment restrictions, yet some of those most vocal about protecting such freedoms cheered on the Bush administration when it wanted to clamp down on speech, or when gay rights pushes are defeated.

Security. Think of the children. Moral outrage. etc

The rich powerful elites have successfully divided the nation to such a degree that they can push through any invasive law they like because they can always bundle together enough of us who hate enough more of us to gain a plurality in its support. More usually they don't need that even. They have the political class in pocket and when it comes to election we have no vote outside of the gerrymandered two sides of the same party system.

Rambling but you get my point.

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#13
post #6

I'm trying to keep the Orwellian thoughts out of my head, but this skips a few steps of creepiness for me. Is this even deemed legal/illegal?

I'm guessing but I think it straddles a legal grey area, depending on what's carried out (how something's done).

In general one cannot expect any privacy while in public. That's been established many times over by the courts in the US. On the other hand, tracking recognizable people, I think without a probable cause, would be illegal. On the other hand if they just keep the footage and regressively backtrack activity after an activity was found to be illegal on the ground, then I don't see how using the generated footage would be illegal --and this would help law enforcement to some significant degree (i.e, someone was found stabbed on the sidewalk, no witnesses, let's backtrack the footage and track the attacker forward or backward).

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#14
post #12

This is, alas, the inevitable consequence of the technological progression that most of us here strive towards on a daily basis.

And it's also why we shouldn't just be focused on creating the technology, but we should be increasingly focused on the system (society) into which it is being placed.

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#15
A 1.8 Gpixel sensor has at 24 frames/s and 24 bit/pixel a data rate of nearly a TBit/s. So I would actually like to see, how they are handling such a data rate (inside of the drone). And how they actually get the data out of the drone.

And to look a bit more into this numbers ( and using the numbers from Backblaze [1]) it seems that the uncompressed video of a single drone over a year would cost $1.5e9, of course divided by the compression ratio. However for 14 days of video the storage cost would be in the ballpark of $60M per drone, that sounds actually quite possible ( especially given an additional factor of ~20 lower costs due to compression and a similar factor of ~20 for five years of HD development).

So this seems actually be technology which could on a timescale of five years be available at costs comparable to two or three police cars (plus the costs of the drone, which should be in a similar range). And I for one find this quite creepy.

[1]roughly $50/TB http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/02/20/180tb-of-good-vibration...

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#16
post #6

I'm trying to keep the Orwellian thoughts out of my head, but this skips a few steps of creepiness for me. Is this even deemed legal/illegal?

We live in a nation which likes civil rights in the abstract but not in the implementation. This causes us all to lose. A plurality exists to clamp down on many freedoms. Use cases to deny first amendment rights are popularized - heck our biggest media companies built on the back of the first amendment now wish to see it neutered. Gun rights folks want the Obama administration to pursue second amendment restrictions,…

I agree and have a hard time convincing friends/family, polarized on either side, this same point. The agenda of the elites is being advanced by whichever party will take the lowest bid. And cleverly enough this just keeps us pitted against each other while allowing for small victories/defeats, depending on what side your on. I wonder if Roman/British common folk had discussions like these while they watched helplessly..

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point, but how does implementing a technology prevents others from doing the same? I would think if it needs to be regulated then new laws need to be written.

I would compare laws to stifle innovation in this field as effective as laws attempting to prevent SW copyright violation, or as effective as laws aimed at proscribing what you may and may not do on the internet. Aside from regulation, in this case the FAA could regulate this as their domain, I don't see why others could not. Anyhow, eventually this could improve such that it could be done from satellites. Since ther…

> FAA could regulate this as their domain

This is similar to having a law and FAA enforcing it. They don't need to have the tech to prohibit others from using it. Surveillance satellites is a whole other can of works IMHO.

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a nation which likes civil rights in the abstract but not in the implementation. This causes us all to lose. A plurality exists to clamp down on many freedoms. Use cases to deny first amendment rights are popularized - heck our biggest media companies built on the back of the first amendment now wish to see it neutered. Gun rights folks want the Obama administration to pursue second amendment restrictions,…

I agree and have a hard time convincing friends/family, polarized on either side, this same point. The agenda of the elites is being advanced by whichever party will take the lowest bid. And cleverly enough this just keeps us pitted against each other while allowing for small victories/defeats, depending on what side your on. I wonder if Roman/British common folk had discussions like these while they watched helpless…

Bread & circuses.

Re: Drone ‘Nightmare Scenario’ Now Has A Name: ARGUS

#20
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It definitely has lots of possible good uses. It remains to be seen if some of the capabilities get abused and if they do whether people judge that as too high a price for the conveniences, or if they judge it to be, on the whole, worthwhile given the benefits (mostly conjecture till implemented, at this point). If they could put this along the drug routes (if they can deal with the difficulties of monitoring over wa…

> It remains to be seen if some of the capabilities get abused

I think it's axiomatic that whenever the tools for oppression are put in place it's only a matter of time before they are used. It'll start with something simple. Some national outrage which the party in government responds to by deploying the drones. Then it'll become normalized. And soon enough it'll become "but what have you to fear if you have nothing to hide" - which in a country with so many ways for everyday citizens to be in breach of its byzantine laws really means it becomes almost discretionary whether you're picked up for one thing or another unless you conform to the whims of the ruling elite.

I think Europeans (of which I am one, prior to becoming an American) tend to have a closer relationship to the abuse of totalitarian tools under the guise of good intentions (particularly those of us over a certain age).

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