Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT • Hacker News Board

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#121

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

BSousa wrote: post #56

embwbam wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American. I grew up in a conservative household so I think I understand where they are coming from. My understanding is that many consider the 2nd amendment to allow them to bear arms to protect themselves from their own oppressive government. The idea is that no government can become completely totalitarian without first disarming the population. And if they try, the people can revolt. That may be an incorrect u…

As I said, it was a supposition ;) I can understand having a license to own a gun (My dad owns a hunting rifle, and a handgun that was an inheritance from my grandpa which will possible pass down to me) but I was watching some news a couple weeks ago where they were showing a hearing on the senate (I think) and the people that went to talk there were defending that changing the laws to allow some guns but not others…

Automatic rifles have been illegal for a long time. It might have been "assault" rifles, which are semi-automatic, that were the subject of debate. To answer your question, the everyday life justification for firearm ownership is recreational use on a shooting range or in unpopulated wilderness where it is permitted. They are also useful in exceptional circumstances (like a fire extinguisher is useful despite having a fire department), and some people just collect them as a hobby, like any other collection (like this dentist I knew once whose collection was kept in a code-locked room in his house).

I think a more interesting question is why there is so much focus on attacking rifles, when the vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#122

Post by damoncali » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #97

giardini wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want to say as an American, I am so fed up with all these gun stories." Me too. But it won't end soon. Currently every shooting in every city is a candidate for promotion to a national media campaign that is focused on gaining additional restrictions on firearms, especially at the federal level (but also state level: Colorado is at this moment passing new highly-restrictive state firearms laws). Every opportu…

"In essence, this is an orchestrated attempt to use the Newtown shootings and the subsequent heightened public sensitivity..." Oh please. Who orchestrated that? The media got together? The government? There is nothing odd in requiring safety from other people's activities, whether that's their their reckless driving or their gun fetish.

It's not like it's a hidden conspiracy. Gun control activists have explicitly stated that they need to take advantage of the emotion following the shootings to push their agenda. And yes, the goal of many of them (including the author of the assault weapons ban currently proposed) is confiscation. She said it herself.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#123

Post by gnud » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

notdrunkatall wrote: post #59

fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

>But I still don't understand that how can guns be allowed in such a manner when they don't let you handle a gas cylinder at a public place or a take a metallic fork on an air-plane. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson You can't fight tyranny in government with metallic forks and ga…

I can see how that reasoning is an argument for gun ownership.

How does it apply to carrying guns in public, especially concealed guns?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#124

Post by tome » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:06 PM UTC

monochromatic wrote: post #98

tome wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for many attorneys in safe, democratic, non-tyrannical Western countries, the "right to bear arms" is not one they are aware of.

I won't say that banning guns leads to tyranny in absolutely every instance, but it sure makes it easier.

I don't think anyone here will disagree with you on that point, but many will say they don't believe the trade-off is worth it.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#125

Post by rplacd » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:06 PM UTC

Tangaroa wrote: post #78

diegocg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "libertarianesque" definicion of freedom commonly used in America is not shared or understood by many countries (not that it matters to americans, of course)

The definition of freedom in about a third of those countries is that you have the freedom to surrender your independence to God and the state, and if you step out of line they will kill you in public as an example to everyone else. The definition of freedom in another large chunk of the world is that the single-party state is the sole legitimate representative of the people and has the sole power to decide what free…

And why should those be the only options?

Of course our options needn't keep state and citizenry separate - in fact, "quite a few" states do place themselves in the middle of the continuum: democratic systems, in theory, join the state and citizenry at the hip and provide the luxury of dealing in a pragmatic manner with the problem of making something so abstract as "freedom" manifest - as-you-go, considerate of subtly different definitions of freedom. Real life doesn't necessarily live up to this ideal; but some of the heights of American legislation do show what is possible.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#126

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:07 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #97

giardini wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want to say as an American, I am so fed up with all these gun stories." Me too. But it won't end soon. Currently every shooting in every city is a candidate for promotion to a national media campaign that is focused on gaining additional restrictions on firearms, especially at the federal level (but also state level: Colorado is at this moment passing new highly-restrictive state firearms laws). Every opportu…

"In essence, this is an orchestrated attempt to use the Newtown shootings and the subsequent heightened public sensitivity..." Oh please. Who orchestrated that? The media got together? The government? There is nothing odd in requiring safety from other people's activities, whether that's their their reckless driving or their gun fetish.

"Orchestrated" may be too strong a word; it's like there is emergent, independent behavior from a large minority of people who share the same views and all saw the same opportunity.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#127

Post by TDL » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:07 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #43

How many people need to die before people in the US realize that having easily obtained firearms is not a good idea?

The U.S. is at historically low point in violence, concurrently there is a historically high percentage of gun ownership in the U.S.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#128

Post by bmelton » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:07 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

cbau wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple-- As an American, I have a right to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't want to give up any rights I don't have to. That includes the freedom to buy and carry a gun.

But I DO have to give up the right to travel without being strip-searched. A nation of paradoxes.

Just because the 4th amendment isn't being upheld to a standard that it ought to be is no reason to endorse the trampling of other civil liberties.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#129

Post by tome » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:08 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #114

lolcraft wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the problem with this is that a government can become completely totalitarian without disarming its subjects. Imagine the Soviet Union, but this time you're allowed to bear arms. Or even better, imagine the USA. Sure, you can bear arms, so in the letter you still can fight for your rights. But in practice, the second you try to pull that shit, a F117 Nighthawk is going to blow your terrorist ass to pieces. Practi…

And the problem with that is that it's not that simple as Iraq and Afghanistan has taught us. Guns, of course, are only part of the equation, but I'm pretty sure both wars would have looked a lot different had the population been generally unarmed. Also, the evacuation of the jews of nazi Germany would have looked a lot different had the jews been armed.

The Nazis overran nation states with mobilized armies. A small segment of the populace with guns would have been irrelevant.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#130

Post by TDL » Sat, Feb 23, 2013, 4:08 PM UTC

thejosh wrote: post #58

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns also save lives. And nations without guns are not violence-free at all. Its a spurious connection, made by lazy thinkers.

Sure not violence free... but not as many mass shootings.. :)

Do you have statistics to back that claim up? Are mass stabbings included in your argument as well?