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Stop Using Small Font Sizes

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Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#51

Post by nathos »

luser001 wrote: post #41
mortehu wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the CSS specification: px: pixel units — 1px is equal to 0.75pt. [...] The reference pixel is the visual angle of one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 96dpi and a distance from the reader of an arm's length. For a nominal arm's length of 28 inches, the visual angle is therefore about 0.0213 degrees. For reading at arm's length, 1px thus corresponds to about 0.26 mm (1/96 inch). http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2…

Thanks! I didn't know that a CSS px wasn't the same as a screen pixel.

Also, on Retina displays, OS X browsers automatically double pixel dimensions.

By default, something declared as 16px is actually rendered as 32px (but sharper).

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#53

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #32
georgemcbay wrote: post #3

I don't mind small font sizes as long as you don't do anything to break zoom in the browser. What is killing me a lot more lately is the trend towards extremely low contrast sites, like white backgrounds with almost-white text. This is starting to be everywhere recently and it is horrible. I'm sure that design looks great on your Pantone-calibrated monitor, designer, but on mine I can barely even see there are words…

Idea: a browser feature (plugin) just like zoom, only that would up the contrast on sites (or decrease, too). It would have to be semi-intelligent to adjust the brightness accordingly (so it would work both on light-gray-on-white sites and dark-gray-on-black sites), but having an in-browser contrast control would be great .

[deleted]

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#54

Post by jay_kyburz »

rhizome wrote: post #33
dgunn wrote: post #11

It's great to see this on HN where there are literally fonts as low as 7pt being used... Everyone keeps saying that it's fine as long as zoom functions correctly. Well it's also fine to use a font size widely accepted as readable. 7pt? Really? Why? Because zoom works? I know a lot of people who read HN that use style bot to increase the font size. To act like this isn't an issue seems really weird to me. Ctrl+- is th…

And zoom does not function correctly on the default Android browser.

And if I pinch zoom in I can't see the whole line.

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#55

Post by Jam0864 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #7

We just went through this like a week or two ago. Yeesh. Every browser I use has support for text resizing, default text sizes, or zoom levels. Android WebKit has double-tap and reflow. I don't see why this is a problem demanding such rants. Ironically the first thing I did when the page loaded was tap Ctrl+- Ctrl+-.

This trend towards ridiculously large font sizes is becoming exceedingly annoying. There's been so many articles about it, and many pseudo-techy (trendy) blogs are adopting the large size. 16pt minimum? Really? There's a reason that so few sites and text editors use that by default. It may look great on your retina display but on 99% of screens out there it just makes your site look like it's aimed towards kids.

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#56

Post by jwr »

Also, if you break zooming on my iOS devices, I won't bother to read your website. I find this an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

That includes the abomination known as Swype (I think) which breaks websites for iPhone/iPad users presenting them with an interface which does something different than it appears to, breaks zooming, introduces useless and unintuitive "pagination" and generally makes users' lives miserable.

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#57

Post by Kerrick »

dgunn wrote: post #11

It's great to see this on HN where there are literally fonts as low as 7pt being used... Everyone keeps saying that it's fine as long as zoom functions correctly. Well it's also fine to use a font size widely accepted as readable. 7pt? Really? Why? Because zoom works? I know a lot of people who read HN that use style bot to increase the font size. To act like this isn't an issue seems really weird to me. Ctrl+- is th…

Exactly. Zoom is there, so set a sane default like 14-18px, and allow those that want to see more at a smaller size to zoom out, don't make the majority zoom in.

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#58

Post by signed0 »

jwr wrote: post #56

Also, if you break zooming on my iOS devices, I won't bother to read your website. I find this an exceptionally stupid thing to do. That includes the abomination known as Swype (I think) which breaks websites for iPhone/iPad users presenting them with an interface which does something different than it appears to, breaks zooming, introduces useless and unintuitive "pagination" and generally makes users' lives miserab…

I don't have an IOS device. What do you mean by broken? Does the font size stay constant while the page elements get bigger, or does zooming not work at all?

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#59

Post by cynwoody »

If you use an absolute font size and get it right, fine. If not, I won't read your site. I'm too lazy to use ⌘-+. Sorry.

(Actually, if your site is really interesting, I might be motivated to write a user script to fix your fonts and other usability problems. But your site is unlikely to be that interesting.)

There is no need to specify an absolute font size. Use only relative font sizes (and be careful about ratios below one).

Also, please favor liquid layouts. Just because my screen is 2560px wide doesn't mean I want to use it all for your site (actually, just the opposite!).

Re: Stop Using Small Font Sizes

#60

Post by fallenhitokiri »

I agree that there can be problematic sites with too small fonts, a nearly non existing line height or grey on white background. But to be honest I stopped caring.

I am normally using Safari (on my Mac and on iOS) and if I visit a site which is hard to read or if I disagree with the mobile no-zoom responsive decision because it doesn't work for me I just turn on the "reader mode". Big enough font size, line height, good contrast, focus on content. What else could I ask for? (well, beside another font maybe)

I see no reason leaving a site or discussing the design taste of someone as long as I have a one-button-read-nicely solution available. But if this won't work (some sites, somehow manage to break it) I'm out.

There are design decisions which look good but are not useable for many people. I believe most of the time someone is aware of this but decided he either does not care or that it is okay. Still, some education and discussion in this field is always good, especially for people just starting.

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