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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#211

Post by ugk »

jasonlotito wrote: post #189
snprbob86 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [T]he procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. I just had a TV delivered. And then a replacement delivered, but they were unauthorized to pick up the original, so the same two delivery guys had to come back a third time. All three times, the delivery guys tried to force me to sign an incomplete form. They clearly wanted me to si…

Maybe you have reason to be afraid, but... > Charm simply does not work on underpaid meatheads Charm, or respect, works on people. Sorry, but when you call them meatheads, it doesn't instill me with any confidence that you treated them with respect. The actions you describe support that fact (mostly through the way you describe it). Again, maybe you have a reason, but unless you are leaving critical things out, your…

Respect is earned. Treating another person with immediate decency is an honorable thing, but to give respect freely indicates a weakness that will be exploited. They were there to do a job, not have tea and chat about local charity.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#212

Post by d23 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #189
snprbob86 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [T]he procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. I just had a TV delivered. And then a replacement delivered, but they were unauthorized to pick up the original, so the same two delivery guys had to come back a third time. All three times, the delivery guys tried to force me to sign an incomplete form. They clearly wanted me to si…

Maybe you have reason to be afraid, but... > Charm simply does not work on underpaid meatheads Charm, or respect, works on people. Sorry, but when you call them meatheads, it doesn't instill me with any confidence that you treated them with respect. The actions you describe support that fact (mostly through the way you describe it). Again, maybe you have a reason, but unless you are leaving critical things out, your…

Back and forths like are annoying and make this community look pedantic. You know damn well you sometimes deal with people who simply don't respond to your niceties. It's a fact of life, and the commenter was simply pointing that out.

You don't know the situation. Why does it have to be his fault? Some people out there really are assholes and really do just want to take advantage of people.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#213

Post by maxerickson »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #186
gadders wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say I've never really had a bad experience with immigration (touch wood). US Customs did however once confiscate a Fortnum and Mason's pork pie from me that I was taking to an English friend in Seattle.

Was the pork pie cooked? They have a rule against raw meat but if it is cooked then it should have been allowed through.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/944/~/bringing-....

(Says canned, cooked, shelf stable pork only. Must be in commercial packaging with labeling to that effect.)

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#214

Post by rayiner »

nitrogen wrote: post #195
rayiner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bush/Obama shoved everything in there because people it was a national outrage after 9/11 that we had different departments for these things. We got what we goddamned asked for. It's not Bush's fault, or Obama's fault, but your fault and my fault.

Why should everyone accept collective blame for decisions they didn't make or support in any way?

Because we live in a society where we've empowered the majority to make decisions like this. We reap the benefits when it turns out well, we should share the blame when it turns out poorly.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#215

Post by tibbon »

lucian1900 wrote: post #169
markdown wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez... what do we teach kids these days? If you've done wrong, admit it. Don't lie about it. If you get a ticket, accept it as deserving punishment for putting other lives at risk.

Particularly in the US, talking to the police is a bad idea. There's a famous video about it.

I've seen the video, and know that overall its good advice.

I think though, depending on various factors, that playing 'nice' can definitely get you further than stonewalling the cop. It all depends what you (potentially) did, who you are (being a white, upper middle class male doesn't hurt), and what you think the worse-case scenario will be.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#216

Post by jrs235 »

shawn-butler wrote: post #184
ScottBurson wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal agent is a felony. I'm not saying it justifies rudeness, but I can see being quite thoroughly paranoid about signing a federal form that contains a known inaccuracy. The agent's opinion that the discrepancy was unimportant might not have been shared by her superiors. If people can be subject to federal prosecution for signing a form prepared by government workers, those workers should consider it t…

Umm, you break federal laws or regulations every day in the course of your normal life. I guarantee it. You add in state and municipal codes and you probably are breaking the law right now as you read this and probably in multiple ways. Consider what you are saying. "Government workers should consider it their job [to be] absolutely accurate." Do you really want a vehicular safety inspection when you get pulled over…

Yes but it's a bit more damning if you SIGN YOUR NAME to something you know is false. It's easier for a judge or jury to find leniency in breaking a law you didn't know about than knowingly stating a falsehood to be true. It's much easier to twist the situation from "I signed it cause they said it was okay." (Where's your proof? This will turn into a he said she said situation) to a "He intentionally mislead the government in order to [something bad, cheat on taxes, get through customs unlawfully, etc.]"

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#217

Post by snprbob86 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #189
snprbob86 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [T]he procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. I just had a TV delivered. And then a replacement delivered, but they were unauthorized to pick up the original, so the same two delivery guys had to come back a third time. All three times, the delivery guys tried to force me to sign an incomplete form. They clearly wanted me to si…

Maybe you have reason to be afraid, but... > Charm simply does not work on underpaid meatheads Charm, or respect, works on people. Sorry, but when you call them meatheads, it doesn't instill me with any confidence that you treated them with respect. The actions you describe support that fact (mostly through the way you describe it). Again, maybe you have a reason, but unless you are leaving critical things out, your…

The more important part of that sentence, which you elided, was the fact that there was a language communication barrier.

I treated them with nothing but respect in person. I always joke around and make small talk with people in the service industry. I know how far that sort of thing can take you. However, I elected to use the word "meatheads" because it paints a picture: They were large men whom couldn't hold a conversation. Whether or not they could hold a conversation with native spanish speakers was immaterial to the story.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#218

Post by danielweber »

aeturnum wrote: post #104
eqreqeq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The other solution is to be really, really nice. To be incredibly accommodating. To engender a spirit of goodwill, joviality and kindness such that the flunky wants to help you. That is not a practical solution. It sounds almost like a bribe. I'm not saying that you should be rude to anybody, but you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. Is a slippery slope. Now you are kissing the…

>you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. You don't. The person in this story did her job. He wouldn't sign the papers so she seized the boat. She also doesn't have the authority to change the papers. Her job is, if something goes sideways, impound everything and let the other parties sort it out. The author of the article wanted a small and very reasonable exception made for his cas…

Yours is a minority viewpoint here, and I wish it got more explanation.

If the bureaucrat's only two options were a) let the guy have the boat, or b) take the boat so someone else can sort it out, then I'm definitely more sympathetic to the bureaucrat here.

Is that understanding correct?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#219

Post by danielweber »

melvinmt wrote: post #146
justin66 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This highlights a problem which isn't unique to Australia. For example, if a potential employer (or whoever) asks you if you've ever been arrested and your record has been expunged or you've been pardoned, you are expected to lie and say "no". That is how the system works. It sucks, but learning how to deal with these sorts of things is part of the price one has to pay when they have a run-in with the law. I'm not su…

I'm wondering, isn't asking for your criminal history during job interviews the same as discriminating based on age or race? I mean, even if you were convicted, you've paid the price by doing your time and after that you should have equal opportunities at a job like anyone else, right? Maybe I'm just too idealistic but I never understood why we hardly give these people a second chance. And then people wonder why reci…

Employers can be held legally responsible for the actions of their employees in certain circumstances, and hiring a ex-felon (when you knew, or could have known) doesn't look good to a jury.

I think this sucks. Since graduation I've never been asked if I'm a felon or been arrested, so it wouldn't matter to me, but for lots of the working class, "no felons" is a common screening technique for employers, and it makes it really hard for people who have done their time to society to re-integrate.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#220

Post by danielweber »

nhangen wrote: post #196
sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

It was the same way getting into the Army. 'Telling the truth on security forms is absolutely essential to being granted a security clearance now or in the future.' Then I'm told to lie about past mistakes, medical history, and anything else that leaves the application untidy.

Different bureaucracies are fighting over that form, and you are the ping pong ball caught between them.
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