Live data from Hacker News

Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

upgrd.com

241–243 of 243 posts

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#241
post #239
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what you said: > While lying requires intent, it does not require knowledge that the statement is false. Explain how a person can possess an intent to deceive while telling what he believes is the truth. Also, I chose the most common definition of lying for a reason -- it's the one recognized in courts of law. While under oath, if you speak a falsehood, but without realizing your remark is false, you cannot be…

> > While lying requires intent, it does not require knowledge that the statement is false. > Explain how a person can possess an intent to deceive while telling what he believes is the truth. Read that sentence again. It does not say what you insinuate it says. Not knowing that a statement is false != knowing that a statement is true. > Also, I chose the most common definition of lying for a reason Yea, the reason b…

Okay, I will try again. Explain how a person can intend to deceive if he doesn't know his remarks are false. An "intent to deceive" means the speaker knows his remarks are deceitful -- i.e. other than truthful.

The legal definition of lying, and by far the most common one in the everyday world, is that lying requires an intent to deceive and the utterance of a knowing falsehood.

> It appears that you are not interested in having a honest discussion.

What? By defining "lying" as it is defined in the law and in most references? How so?

> only in misrepresenting and twisting what you wrote and what I wrote

When I have quoted you, I have done it by cutting and pasting your exact words, as you typed them, directly from the display. How is that twisting your words?

> for the sake of defending a claim you made that is obviously false.

It is not "obviously false," it is not false at all. Lying is knowing, intentional falsehood. To lie, one must know that the statement is false.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie

Quote: "1 : a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood."

How is that in any way confusing to you?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury

Quote: "Statements which entail an interpretation of fact are not perjury because people often draw inaccurate conclusions unwittingly, or make honest mistakes without the intent to deceive. Individuals may have honest but mistaken beliefs about certain facts, or their recollection may be inaccurate, or may have a different perception of what is the accurate way to state the truth. Like most other crimes in the common law system, to be convicted of perjury one must have had the intention (mens rea) to commit the act, and to have actually committed the act (actus reus)." [emphasis added]

Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230329960457732...

Quote: "When federal prosecutors can't muster enough evidence to bring charges against a person suspected of a crime, they can still use a controversial law to get a conviction anyway: They charge the person with lying.

The law against lying—known in legal circles simply as "1001"—makes it a crime to knowingly make a material false statement in matters of federal jurisdiction." [emphasis added]

Still confused?

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#242

Yes, it's unfortunate that the flight attendant lied in this situation. However, it would have been impossible for the pilot to verify this - even if the author showed him the camera. Since the author was willing to 'prove' it, it had to be a digital camera - which the author could have very easily used the built-in delete function to remove all photos but one (or be a sneaky terrorist and swap SD cards). In addition…

They ought to make a law against people using the word "terrorist". Leave it up to the proper authorities to handle such a dangerous word.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because arguing. If, after being shown the rule, he'd STFU, this article wouldn't be here. He was shown the rule, thought about it, and then objected, implying future rule breaking was in store. There are now (wrongly, in my opinion, but that's another story) homeland security guidelines about passengers exhibiting behavior that suggests they don't or won't accept the flight attendant's authority. Flowcharting those…

He was shown the rule, thought about it, and then objected, implying future rule breaking was in store. Really? Saying that you don't like a rule imply's thay he would break the rule, thereby meaning (according to DanBC & Terretta) that he broke the rule? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

> Really? Saying that you don't like a rule imply's thay he would break the rule,

Not breaking "the" rule, future rule breaking. There's a difference.

According to current flight regulations, arguing about breaking a rule is cause to suspect other rules may be broken later.

> thereby meaning (according to DanBC & Terretta) that he broke the rule?

Not according to Terretta. According to post 911 flight regulations being followed by the FA and pilot. These new security regulations say someone who objects to authority can be denied travel like "pre-crime" suspects on Minority Report.

> Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Yes, which is why I wrote, "wrongly, in my opinion, but that's another story" about these regulations.

The situation will remain ridiculous until enough people realize this ridiculousness is now policy and needs undoing.

Post reply on HN