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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#121

Post by Strang »

vacri wrote: post #109
Strang wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely did "steal" his boat, for some definition of the word "steal." The DHS agent will not be charged with theft or larceny. But he was in lawful possession of a boat, someone with a gun ordered him off the boat, and he is no longer in possession of a boat.

I don't think his lawful possession of the boat starts until that form was properly signed. Moral possession, sure.

Then whose boat was it, lawfully?

You raise an interesting point, by the way. America is partly founded on the idea that laws do not create rights, but instead recognize natural rights. If this story is accurate and the DHS agent did not recognize his natural rights, that is an offense. But if the law did not recognize his natural rights, that is an even greater offense.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#123

Post by cecilpl »

raintrees wrote: post #93
sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

Or, just go with the flow. I remember a time I was leaving Boca Raton Florida, heading for Front Royal Virginia (field engineering work). I had a partial bottle of wine in my carry on (way before 9-11) and as I carefully set the bag on the conveyor for the x-ray device, I asked the security attendant if it was okay to have a partial bottle in the bag. She said "What?" in a heavy accent, so I asked again, she said "Wh…

I wouldn't even ask in that situation.

Always prefer asking for forgiveness over permission unless you're doing something irreversible.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#124

Post by stanleydrew »

antidaily wrote: post #58

They say you're better off taking the cash you'd pay for a boat and just throwing it into the ocean.

Reminds me that Warren Buffett doesn't own a yacht. When asked why, he responded "Why would I want to own a yacht? All my friends have yachts."

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#125

Post by jlgreco »

snowwrestler wrote: post #105
jlgreco wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expecting that is absolutely fine. Feeling entitled to that is not. You don't get to fuck over other people's days when they fail to extend you a courtesy. Well I mean, clearly they do get to do that, but that is a problem, not excusable behavior. I treat clerks nicely because I am a decent person. I treat government officials in positions of power over me nicely because, aside from being a decent person, I understan…

You think you understand the score, but to me it seems more like a persecution complex. The irony is that in Arrington's situation the border agent tried to educate Mike that this was a rule that could be safely bent in the interest of expedience, but it was Mike himself who insisted on perfect procedure.

If you are dealing with the burrito vendor outside your office and keep it straight business ("super burrito, with steak"), perhaps because it has been a long day and you are tired as hell, there is no retribution. The quality of your burrito service is not compromised just because you failed to be his 5 minute friend that day. Why? Maybe the burrito vendor understands customer service, maybe because the burrito vendor understands that you are peers in an economic transaction, or maybe because the burrito vendor just doesn't have an ego problem. Who knows, who cares.

Fail to pretend to be a friend to that cop, DMV worker, or private security guard at the front desk of your buddies apartment? Good luck not getting hassle or at least artificially degraded service.

EMT or firefighter? Taxi driver? Doctors and nurses? Train ticket puncher? Just like the burrito vendor, no pressure to be their "friend".

Some jobs either attract people with a sense of entitlement, or cultivate a sense of entitlement in otherwise decent people. The root cause of this? Who the hell knows, but everyone who perceives it is not imagining things. If you haven't noticed it, then perhaps you need to tune in.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#127

Post by Kiro »

raintrees wrote: post #88

The form is being treated as a contract, and like all contracts I am requested to sign, I would line through and correct them as needed, then sign. If the other party will not allow the amendments, then we go to the next step, but in the mean time, the contract was made factually correct. I did this with my girlfriend (now wife) on our first rental contract and was amused by her shock at my changing the "official" fo…

Why so overzealous? Would you be shocked if I said that I always sign stuff without even reading it?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#128

Post by robomartin »

Hiring a lawyer will get your boat back. It will not fix the problem.

The problem is too much government.

Perhaps you should consider this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

We don't need to eliminate government, of course. Someone still has to throw parties for foreign dignitaries and say stupid shit on TV. We do need to trim it down to the bone and get it out of our daily lives. You just had a run-in with the "Gestapo" society we are building-up to. Thugs with badges and guns. Great stuff. That's exactly what I want the future to be in for my kids. Right.

I mean, think about it for a moment. You are buying a boat from Canada. Why should government be involved in any way whatsoever? Are you really free? You can't even go fishing to feed your family without asking for permission from the government in the form of a fishing license. Think about THAT for a moment. Our ancestors were able to fish and hunt to feed themselves, their families and communities as needed. Today, if you are caught fishing without a license ANYWHERE, you can be arrested and fined. I've seen guys with guns board group fishing boats here in California to check for fishing licenses. Imagine that image in my kid's mind: Fishing with Dad and guys with uniforms and guns interrupt the experience to ask for papers. Pretty cool setup we have, ey?

Reminds me of a story from when I was a child. We were traveling in Argentina. My Dad got pulled over by a cop at this checkpoint between Ezeiza (International Airport) and Buenos Aires. The cop asked for papers and took his time checking them out. Another cop came out of the booth. He, menacingly, looked inside the car were my Mom, Sister and I were. The first cop asked my Dad to get out of the car. They walked around the car looking for problems. The car was perfect. Then he said something like "We need to go in the office for you to pay your fine". I'm sure my Dad though "WTF, over?". He, politely, asked: "What's the problem officer". Without blinking the copy replied: "You were driving with one hand".

They went inside and my Dad, effectively, had to bribe them. It was a first class shake-down.

Here's what's funny: This was a Fiat 128 with a manual transmission. And, it would be my guess that the vast majority of cars in Argentina at the time had manual transmissions. There was no law about having to have both hands on the wheel at the same time, but, even if that law existed, you'd have to violate it for a fraction of a second every time you shift the transmission.

Next time you vote, think about who you are voting for and what they really stand for. Think beyond you and do the generations to come a favor by reducing government to the most essential functions we need and nothing more.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#129

Post by starnixgod »

justlearning wrote: post #113

"So now I have to hire a lawyer to try to figure all this out." forgive my ignorance, but isn't Arrington a lawyer?. Question - Why does a lawyer need to hire another lawyer to represent him? Although, there are several branches of law specialization, Arrington could take it on himself to file the case against DHS? no? "I live a fairly simple life and that didn’t change much after I sold TechCrunch in 2010" - yeah we…

A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#130

Post by pasbesoin »

It appears that agent solicited, and advised, you (the story's author) to falsify information. I don't know what weight that would carry with respect to this form, but were you to have initiated such falsification, I imagine it might or would have been construed to be some level of criminal activity.

So... did this agent solicit, advise you to commit a crime? If so, will this agent face repercussions for her actions?

Perhaps it's "not serious". Except that you sought to correct the information, to make the situation fully compliant, and she appears to have used her position to punish you for this.

I would also question why she was so eager. Are their incentives for agents, and perhaps financial incentives for the agency(s) involved, to pursue such seizures?

I guess, were I in your shoes, I'd be hesitant to further buck the might and potential maliciousness of the U.S. government. However, from my perspective, I would very much like a public airing and answers to these questions.

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