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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#11

Post by sivers »

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia.

20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest.

So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested.

He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home.

When he told the border guy the full situation, the border guy said, "Next time, just check NO."

Then, this interesting quote: "You give us the papers we want. We give you the papers you want."

Meaning: make the papers (visa forms) look the way we want them to look, and we'll give you the papers (tourist visa) you want.

I remember that rule of thumb when crossing borders, or filling out paperwork to open a new bank account in a foreign country. Luckily, I've never had to lie, but it sure helps to make the forms look the way they want them to look, instead of treating them as an opportunity to express your individual quirks.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#12

Post by ChuckMcM »

yukoncornelius wrote: post #5

If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification. On the other hand, Mike is pleading his case in the court of public opinion, and his reputation is likely going to get him a lot of popular support either warranted or unwarranted.

One can certainly hope so. But I don't hold high expectations. A note in her personnel file perhaps.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#14

Post by [deleted] »

yukoncornelius wrote: post #5

If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification. On the other hand, Mike is pleading his case in the court of public opinion, and his reputation is likely going to get him a lot of popular support either warranted or unwarranted.

[deleted]

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#15

Post by jimrandomh »

If you refuse to sign a form because it has an error on it, it's your problem. If that form is what enables you to take custody of a boat, then you don't get to take custody of the boat. On the other hand, if the form that you signed has handwritten errata on it near the signature, and you weren't sneaky about it, then it's the bureacrats' problem instead of yours.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#16

Post by YokoZar »

yukoncornelius wrote: post #5

If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification. On the other hand, Mike is pleading his case in the court of public opinion, and his reputation is likely going to get him a lot of popular support either warranted or unwarranted.

What on earth makes you think the agency wouldn't cover for her even if it knew everything was true as stated?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#17

Post by Cushman »

javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

> It sucks. It's a form of psychic bribery.

That seems like a terribly cynical way to view the idea that, if you're nice to people, they will be nice to you.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#18

Post by 3327 »

homosaur wrote: post #3

DHS honestly makes me embarrassed to be an American. We could kill the whole thing tomorrow and it would make zero difference to public safety.

This is outrageous. Its police state behavior. "Confiscating" property should require documented probably cause and something like a warrant. What if the boat was your house? What if you were living in it with a family which my parents do? What then? One agent has the power and authority to do that? Ever read the comic strip or seen the movie Judge Dread?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#19

Post by eqreqeq »

javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

>> The other solution is to be really, really nice. To be incredibly accommodating. To engender a spirit of goodwill, joviality and kindness such that the flunky wants to help you.

That is not a practical solution. It sounds almost like a bribe. I'm not saying that you should be rude to anybody, but you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. Is a slippery slope. Now you are kissing their asses, latter that will not be enough and the demands for bribes will be the next logical step. No, the line has to be drawn here.

Politeness is fine, more than that and you are kissing their asses.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#20

Post by mindcrime »

[deleted] wrote: post #4

[deleted]

There's a pretty big difference between government seizure and stealing.

There is? Coulda fooled me. If an individual took your boat without your permission, it's stealing. How is it different just because a large group of individuals got together and did it? Just because they give themselves fancy names like "government" and "State" and "DHS" doesn't mean they actually have any authority to take your property.

I'm reminded of what Bastiat said in The Law[1]:

Every individual has the right to use force for lawful self-defense. It is for this reason that the collective force — which is only the organized combination of the individual forces — may lawfully be used for the same purpose; and it cannot be used legitimately for any other purpose.

Personally I think he hit the nail right on the head.

[1]: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

Edit: OK, please don't upvote this. It doesn't deserve it, and it doesn't even really belong on HN at all. Neither does this article, really. I just realized that I let myself get drawn into a politics discussion by an inflammatory post, and I regret it. I mean, I stand by what I said, this just isn't really the place for it.

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