Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#1

Post by pixpox3 » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:09 PM UTC

I'm not a hacker/coder, but I've hired a coder to create me a desktop app using JAVA swing that I planned to sell.

I hired him in August 2008, he quoted me $2500 and said it would take two months. Its now almost april and hes almost finished. Throughout the process hes been angry, rude and keeps talking about how incredibly patient he's being with me.

I offered him 10 percent of profits, just because I thought I might as well seeing as my initial investment looked like it was going down the pan anyway. But hes been holding me ransom the whole time, basically wanting more money, a lump sum at the end of development and he wants my investor (who may invest a modest amount in the software) to buy him out.

What can I do? I cant afford to pay him bonuses, I dont want to give him more percentage and I definitely want to try and get him off my back and cut him out of the project.

I'm thinking the best way would be to get someone to reverse engineer the software so I have complete control over it. It currently authenticates the user on startup using a script on his server.

My question is, can anyone tell me what the best way to do it would be? Is reverse engineering Java Swing apps doable? Im thinking I should hire someone of Rentacoder to do this and just get this headache over and done with.

Thanks for any advice.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#2

Post by chanux » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:20 PM UTC

Didn't you come to any kind of written agreement on your DEAL? If not You have to be very careful of every step you are planning to take.

I suggest you to be flexible in this matter & take a step which would do less damage to your investment. I hope HN folks will come up with some good advices :).

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#3

Post by pixpox3 » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:38 PM UTC

chanux wrote: post #2

Didn't you come to any kind of written agreement on your DEAL? If not You have to be very careful of every step you are planning to take. I suggest you to be flexible in this matter & take a step which would do less damage to your investment. I hope HN folks will come up with some good advices :).

Well there was a written agreement, but the funds were released in 4 separate milestones.

However, once I'd released 40 percent of the money and it was slightly late, I'd already wasted 2 months and said goodbye to 40 percent of the funds, so I felt like I had to stick with it. A foolish move in retrospect!

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#4

Post by allenbrunson » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:40 PM UTC

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable.

second, getting someone to "reverse engineer" an existing app is a very bad idea. you're already in a bad situation, that would make it even worse.

assuming you find someone to do this, they are going to be morally questionable. i, for one, would never agree to do such a thing, not for any price.

if you're not happy with the work you're getting, you should have said so a long time ago. if the terms you've negotiated so far allow you to do so, i'd offer him some smaller amount for the source code and call it a day. if he says no, hire another coder to start again from scratch.

2500 bucks is not very much money to lose. i just lost six months of my time working on a startup that didn't pan out, for which i received a grand total of 1500 bucks. given how much i was making at my last full-time job, that's an opportunity cost to me of about 50 grand. but i'm sure as hell not going to make things worse by mucking around in the situation any longer. i took my lumps and i'm moving on.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#5

Post by pixpox3 » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:50 PM UTC

allenbrunson wrote: post #4

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. second, getting someone to "reverse engineer" an existing app is a very bad idea. you're already in a bad situation, that would make it even worse. assuming you find someone to do this, they are going to be morally questionable. i, for one, would never agree to do su…

2500 dollars is a lot for me, in my current situation. Surely it's not morally questionable as I paid for a service, to be completed at an agreed date at an agreed price. If he refuses to stick to the deal then I don't see how its amoral for me to pay him the 2500 dollars and keep my software, even if he wants to try and squeeze more money out of me.

Please feel free to let me know why it would be wrong for me to do that, as I'm not trying to be unethical.

Also: corrected the dodgy formatting!

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#6

Post by froo » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:51 PM UTC

allenbrunson wrote: post #4

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. second, getting someone to "reverse engineer" an existing app is a very bad idea. you're already in a bad situation, that would make it even worse. assuming you find someone to do this, they are going to be morally questionable. i, for one, would never agree to do su…

  okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable.

I had the exact same thing happen to me the other day when trying to submit a poll, it popped up

tags all over the place, so I'm sure it's not the guys fault.

I had to go back and edit the thread to make it readable after someone pointed it out to me.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#7

Post by vaksel » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:55 PM UTC

Simple...sue him.

Dude I'm in your exact situation...hired someone to do a project, and he is now a year late. I gave the guy concession after concession just to get him to finish...hell I cut about 70% of the features just to have him finish quicker. And told him...as long as he finish quickly I'd waive the late fees.

You can't work with these people...even after all my concessions the guy still gave me major attitude when I demanded that he hurry up or I'll sue him.

So Monday I'm getting the lawyers involved. Not sure about your situation, but I had my guy sign a contract that specified late fees. So its a little easier to sue him, since the late fees will more than cover lawyer fees. Of course since you have a smaller amount, you can try your luck at small claims court.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#8

Post by indiejade » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:57 PM UTC

I've hired a coder to create me a desktop app using JAVA swing that I planned to sell.

You might be asking for advice in the wrong place.

If you want to make money selling desktop apps, the advice you'll likely get from this crowd is "learn how to do it yourself." Otherwise, give your coder at least a 50 percent interest in all of the proceeds from this app.

Given what you tell us of his reaction, it sounds like you might be offering him an insulting percentage; think about it like: where would your idea to make a quick buck be without somebody who writes code?

Sometimes it's all about respect; other times it's about credit (being known for coming up with X); and still sometimes it's all about money, but most of the time it's a combination of the three. Find out what his combination is.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#9

Post by allenbrunson » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 2:59 PM UTC

froo wrote: post #6

allenbrunson wrote: post #4

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. second, getting someone to "reverse engineer" an existing app is a very bad idea. you're already in a bad situation, that would make it even worse. assuming you find someone to do this, they are going to be morally questionable. i, for one, would never agree to do su…

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. I had the exact same thing happen to me the other day when trying to submit a poll, it popped up tags all over the place, so I'm sure it's not the guys fault. I had to go back and edit the thread to make it readable after someone pointed it out to me.

oh. huh, didn't know that.

by the way, by putting a couple of blank spaces at the beginning of the quote, your comment is causing the page width to get stretched out.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#10

Post by pixpox3 » Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 3:02 PM UTC

indiejade wrote: post #8

I've hired a coder to create me a desktop app using JAVA swing that I planned to sell. You might be asking for advice in the wrong place. If you want to make money selling desktop apps, the advice you'll likely get from this crowd is "learn how to do it yourself." Otherwise, give your coder at least a 50 percent interest in all of the proceeds from this app. Given what you tell us of his reaction, it sounds like you…

I appreciate that I can't write code, he has a skill I don't have. But I hired him to do it, he agreed a price, but hes now almost a year late and despite me offering him bonuses, 10% of the profits, hes still holding me to ransom and wanting more.

If I hire someone to build a house they don't get insulted when I offer them 10% of future rental yields. How can it be insulting to offer a percentage which wasn't even in the initial agreement?