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Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

blogs.kde.org

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Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#141

Post by ajross »

Zealot wrote: post #111
damian2000 wrote: post #79

I've got another less exciting reason how it ended up there... someone at Sony or one of their contractors found it on here: http://www.iconarchive.com/show/oxygen-icons-by-oxygen-icons... It says there "commercial usage allowed". They probably didn't even know it was from KDE.

What if I go to some site, that offers me movies for free and states "commercial usage allowed" ?

Public domain and freely available artwork is commonly available on the internet. Free movies are not. One of those seems more likely to be valid than the other.

And in any case, Sony can use this artwork commercially. It's free software, for goodness sake. What they missed was the requirement for attribution. So they should provide that somewhere. End of story.

I don't understand this kind of logic. I mean, I can see the hypocrisy argument -- Sony is a Big Evil Corporation and constantly harping about IP rights, and here they got caught not-quite-following-the-letter-of-the-licesense.

But come on now: the KDE team drew and released those icons (and the rest of their software) with the clear intent that they would be useful to people in their own work. They even licensed it to allow that. This isn't a great crime, it's just a mistake.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#142

Post by ajross »

unreal37 wrote: post #137
grecy wrote: post #123

Unfortunately, I honestly think the best course of action is to sue Sony for every penny possible. The case needs to get as much press and possible, and people need to see how completely ridiculous the whole thing is. More and more cases like this need to tie up the court system, wasting everyone's time and money. This is the only way we'll get copyright reform.

"Every penny possible" is like $1000, which is the going rate for icon licensing. Sony would just pay it. No "copyright reform" will happen from this.

Frankly I doubt they'd see even that. It's an LGPL icon, it's quite literally available for free, just not under the terms that Sony assumed.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#143

Post by csense »

While we're all hating on Sony, let's remember how they removed the ability to install Linux on the Playstation 3 [1] [2].

They're a company that does malicious things to users. Please, boycott Sony.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3#OtherOS_support

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS

EDIT: Citation added, because I was downvoted.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#144

Post by [deleted] »

warfangle wrote: post #122
jason_slack wrote: post #112

The KDE Developer that wrote this needs to take a deep breath...they asked: "Should KDE e.V. and Nuno's Oxygen friends start a new business model by sueing them for everything they're worth?" Really? Sue them for all they are worth? Go ahead and try, but you need money to sue and no Judge is going to award you "All they are worth" over an icon. You haven't lost anything with Sony using this icon. You have gained beca…

If you look at it under current copyright law, every time Sony has distributed this icon without the GPL (e.g., the page on which it resides has been viewed) can be considered an infringement of the original artist's copyright. Sony would be liable for between $750 and $150,000 per instance. Say this page has been viewed 100,000 times. That's 100,000 violations of the original copyright. Statutory damages awarded cou…

[deleted]

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#145

Post by jason_slack »

mpyne wrote: post #138
jason_slack wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no, I surely think that Sony did wrong and needs to admit the mistake but that picking and choosing one's battles might be more appropriate here. I disagree with the author's blog post on making a big stink and "suing them for all they are worth". Yes, maybe just a saying that everyone understands the meaning to but it doesn't lent any credibility or help justify the issue at hand. Which is Sony used the artwork.…

Is it hyperbole, really, when the same argument would be applied in the opposite direction? I know that KDE somehow has a reputation for quiet professionalism [1], but I don't think that should extend to a developer's personal opinion, nor do I think that pointing out the hyperbole of someone else is itself an example of hyperbole. Especially when the hyperbole is so obviously hyperbolic! [1] http://inmyholyopinion.c…

but this blog author/developer is acting like they are representing KDE as a whole. "Should we".

He didn't preface by saying "IMHO" or "These are my views and I'd like your opinion"

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#146

Post by bediger4000 »

mikeryan wrote: post #125
bediger4000 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear Sony did not intend to do this How can you say this? If you've ever worked in a corporate environment, you know that layers and layers of reviews and supervision and requirements exist to prevent any mis-step. If this image flew through that process, then Sony knows what it did. I think you're making an unwarranted assumption. My assumption about Sony's massive, multi-review process is far more like…

I think you're making an unwarranted assumption. My assumption about Sony's massive, multi-review process is far more likely to be upheld by fact. I sincerely doubt your assumption will be upheld. I've worked at large multi-nationals, I currently run an agency which does design services for large multinational companies. Not once have I heard nor seen anyone do something like run an icon set for a support page throug…

But Sony has a big policy (https://internet.sony.tv/customer/template/IPNotice.vm) of respecting "Intellectual Property" of others! And of defending its own "IP" quite zealously (http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/28/sony-says-attacked-bec...) How can you write that?!? Do you mean to say that Sony would consider violating some person's Property Rights just because it's cheaper or even free of charge to steal "Intellectual Property" than it is to figure out if some person owns the "IP" and who that person might be, and then negotiate a contract for the legal, proper use of the "IP"? Shocking! Just Shocking that some person would impugn Sony's good "Intellectual Property" name over an icon!

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#147

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

lmm wrote: post #127
warfangle wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it only costs $300 to create a top notch icon? You've never met a designer in your life, have you?

Designers overrate their influence. I can certainly get a usable settings icon for less than $300. We're talking about a website to help users use the hardware they already bought, not trying to win a design award.

You may be underrating the designer's desire to eat food, live indoors, and use software that isn't pirated.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#148

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

klez wrote: post #126
jason_slack wrote: post #112

The KDE Developer that wrote this needs to take a deep breath...they asked: "Should KDE e.V. and Nuno's Oxygen friends start a new business model by sueing them for everything they're worth?" Really? Sue them for all they are worth? Go ahead and try, but you need money to sue and no Judge is going to award you "All they are worth" over an icon. You haven't lost anything with Sony using this icon. You have gained beca…

> Really? Sue them for all they are worth? Hyperbole? > Well, for those that even recognise that it is KDE artwork to begin with. I think you are confusing copyright with trademarks.

Coming from the KDE folks it's likely to be hyperbole, and maybe they might want you to notice the irony of that with respect to Sony's past reactions to misappropriation of Sony's own content.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#149

Post by nikolaj »

unreal37 wrote: post #136
bediger4000 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear Sony did not intend to do this How can you say this? If you've ever worked in a corporate environment, you know that layers and layers of reviews and supervision and requirements exist to prevent any mis-step. If this image flew through that process, then Sony knows what it did. I think you're making an unwarranted assumption. My assumption about Sony's massive, multi-review process is far more like…

I work in an environment similar to this (an outside agency working with a large multi-national) and believe me, I CAN believe that this is an unintentional mistake. Also, there's not "multiple layers and layers of reviews" for small "build your vaio" websites such as this. Sony may be large, but that doesn't mean it's CEO, legal team, or any senior person with a VP or C-level title ever saw this.

I work at an agency, and we have done things for Sony in the past. Even small campaign sites like this get caught in "legal review" for a week or two at the minimum.

That being said, I would imagine that someone in the agency that did this thought that "open source" means "free", and that the lawyers at Sony weren't informed where the icons came from (or didn't ask).

Ultimately, I do think KDE should fire a takedown notice and make a big stink about it, though. Sony certainly wouldn't be shy or understanding about it, so neither should they.

Re: Sony Pirates KDE Artwork

#150

Post by belorn »

jacquesm wrote: post #87
belorn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we should hold all parties to the same standard no matter who the party is, but commercial usage should add additional expectations from the defending party. Commercial use is commonly perceived as "worse" than if it's done for private/non-profit use. But my initial comment was mostly to acknowledge that we do not give the benefit of doubt to private persons, but we do to commercial entities. The law sho…

> there wouldn’t have been a single comment questioning the validity of the accusation. That just isn't true.

Thankfully, we do have hacker news as a good indicator. Lets use the case I refereed to: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4818159

Even the title say "pirate bay girl". Not a single comment ask if this was just a innocent mistake done by the girl. not a single comment address if either the father or the girl have read copyright law or was aware which sites are authorized sources and which aren't.

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