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Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

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Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#181

Post by megablast »

andrewfelix wrote: post #135
tankenmate wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the bit about being humble means they might let you stay on the plane. The decision process is a one way process, once you cross the line there is no going back; or in the words of De Niro "If there's doubt then there is no doubt".

I can only speak from experience. In the past when I've been caught doing something illegal or improper, I've been let off by being respectful and apologetic. Courtesy, respect and humility goes a long way.

I guess you can try to compare stealing cookies at home to be told by the pilot to get off the plane.

There is no way this was being reversed. Once it gets to that stage, it is too late.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#182

Post by PavlovsCat »

vacri wrote: post #177
biot wrote: post #163

My take on this: "Naturally, the FA's warning bothered me and I felt the need to explain myself." Why? The only appropriate response to being informed that you are not permitted to take pictures in a non-public space is "I understand" or simply "Okay". No explanation is necessary as it won't change the rule that the flight attendant is likely obligated to enforce. However, the author feels compelled to justify himsel…

It's a good lesson for him to learn - when someone is between you and what you want, it's probably not going to help if you call them a liar.

If someone put themselves between you and something you want via a lie, calling them out is actually the last option you have. While speaking of "lesson"... the captain couldn't make eye contact and the FA hid away; let's hope they learned their lessons; actual ones worth talking about.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#183

Post by DanBC »

intenex wrote: post #128
jemfinch wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the word itself. The word could be "terrorist" or "bomb" or "Muslim" or anything, really. It's denying some wrongdoing without having first been accused of it . Humans learn very early on to be suspicious of people who offer denials prior to accusations, and we likewise learn in childhood not to offer such denials ourselves. When no one has accused you of stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, saying out of…

Except it wasn't used in that manner at all . As others pointed out, it's a fricken idiom and automatic response in a photographic context. http://goo.gl/CnV1s It's the same as if he replied 'okay, don't worry, the photos will be dead and gone', and the flight attendant misinterprets that to mean he's going to blow up the plane and kill everyone. If the story is as he's relayed it, he's absolutely 100% not at fault a…

> it's a fricken idiom and automatic response in a photographic context. http://goo.gl/CnV1s

It's part of an idiom, and that'a among a small niche community, mostly in London.

Even if the guy was aware of the idiom I doubt the staff were too.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#184

Post by Anechoic »

DanBC wrote: post #180
Anechoic wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their shoes, I'd point out that by his own explanation, he was wilfully breaking the rules. He took one picture when he was unaware of the rule. Once informed of the rule, he immediately stopped. How is that "willfuly breaking the rules"?

He didn't say anything to indicate that he would stop taking photos. He then went on to say that he always took photos on United flights and never had a problem.

Again, how is that willfully breaking the rules? Am I will breaking the rules here becaus I don't explicitly state that I am following HN guidelines in all my posts?

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#185

Post by vacri »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #182
vacri wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good lesson for him to learn - when someone is between you and what you want, it's probably not going to help if you call them a liar.

If someone put themselves between you and something you want via a lie, calling them out is actually the last option you have. While speaking of "lesson"... the captain couldn't make eye contact and the FA hid away; let's hope they learned their lessons; actual ones worth talking about.

You can draw attention to the issue without impugning the character of the person in the way. Even saying "that's not true" is better, since it doesn't unambiguously assign a negative motive.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#186

Post by IvyMike »

biot wrote: post #163

My take on this: "Naturally, the FA's warning bothered me and I felt the need to explain myself." Why? The only appropriate response to being informed that you are not permitted to take pictures in a non-public space is "I understand" or simply "Okay". No explanation is necessary as it won't change the rule that the flight attendant is likely obligated to enforce. However, the author feels compelled to justify himsel…

> "Naturally, the FA's warning bothered me and I felt the need to explain myself." Why?

Because that's a very natural reaction to being accused, explicitly or implicitly, of being a bad person. (Yes, it would have simplified his life to have suppressed his emotions at this point. But I completely understand why he felt like he did.)

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#187

Post by PavlovsCat »

vacri wrote: post #185
PavlovsCat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone put themselves between you and something you want via a lie, calling them out is actually the last option you have. While speaking of "lesson"... the captain couldn't make eye contact and the FA hid away; let's hope they learned their lessons; actual ones worth talking about.

You can draw attention to the issue without impugning the character of the person in the way. Even saying "that's not true" is better, since it doesn't unambiguously assign a negative motive.

Of course it would have been better to say it differently; that doesn't make what he said instead a justification for what happened, or that it would have changed anything.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#188

Post by jules »

lutusp wrote: post #151
lusr wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is just my opinion, but if you make a statement that you don't know to be true and assert it as a true statement, you have lied.

> Perhaps this is just my opinion, but if you make a statement that you don't know to be true and assert it as a true statement, you have lied. No, this is not correct. If the speaker doesn't know that a statement is false, the statement is not a lie. Lying requires knowledge that the remark is false and must include an intent to deceive . ---------------------------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie Quot…

While lying requires intent, it does not require knowledge that the statement is false. If I say "lutusp killed JFK" then that is a lie, even though I do not know that it is false. It is a lie exactly because I do not know it to be true. Something can be a lie if it is true! Suppose the FA said "he took more pictures" without having seen him taking more pictures, with the intent to deceive the captain to get this guy off the plane. That is a lie even if he did take more pictures, because the FA does not know it to be true.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#189

Post by alan_cx »

sdoering wrote: post #32
trustfundbaby wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I gave the impression of not cooperating, but I can assure you I did not and will not take any more pictures this flight. It would mean a lot to me if I could stay on the plane ----- feels a bit too servile for me, especially if I felt I didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

Why, if this means, you stay on the plane, you win. But nobody looses his/her face. So wining, without anyone losing, what is so wrong? Everything else (and I sadly, really often react that way) is the little child in a sand-pit: "But he started it" kind of argument. Not mature, not civilized, just childish - the way or societies more and more seem to become imho.

Well, one could say its giving in to a bully.

BTW, you do lose. You lose self respect and dignity, and yet more freedom. Every time each of us has that chipped away, its another win for the terrorist, who must be laughing their nuts off watching scared westerners become more and more borg like.

But hey, you get your flight, and as we know, that is way more important than freedom, self respect and dignity. Short term gain always trumps long term decency. Of course the vast majority are quite happy for that trade off, given how scared we all are of a 1 in 2 million chance terrorist attack in the US. Context: 1 in 900,00 that you'll die in your bath... Or 1 in 19,000 of dying in your car. 15 US citizens died of terrorists in 2010.

Re: Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures

#190

Post by sokoloff »

jfoster wrote: post #173

Tips for air travel: 1. Don't bring up terrorism or bombs. 2. If a disagreement with anyone arises and is settled, don't bring it up again. 3. Be polite and humble, particularly whilst on the actual plane. 4. Do not accuse anyone of lying. It's confrontational and leads to conflict. Instead assume miscommunication, apologize & clarify. 5. Don't accuse anyone of threatening you. It's confrontational and leads to confl…

Surprised so few people are keying in on point #2. That to me is the key point where the blogger went awry, was entirely within his own control to avoid and if he'd done so, no one gets kicked off the flight.

I understand the "well, it wasn't settled ACCORDING TO ME, so I want to clarify" mentality, but if you can't control that urge, don't be surprised to find that you escalate your way into situations like this.

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