Ubuntu on tablets • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#261

Post by barrkel » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 11:19 PM UTC

psionski wrote: post #254

barrkel wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already disabled the overlay scrollbar, it's trivial to fix with a Google search. None of this is hard for me, just enormously time consuming for all the broken things I need to fix or work around. I'm no neophyte; I've been using Linux since 1996, a copy of Red Hat 3.0.3 ("picasso", Wikipedia tells me) from a magazine cover CD. The point is that Linux UIs are perpetually half-baked. I'm happiest interacting with L…

You might want to re-think the part about the fantastic command-line experience. You can't auto-complete command arguments, even if you get it working for some commands, it won't work with all of them (i.e. 3rd party tools). Of course, you can try to remember the single-letter shortcuts, but they are often illogical because the letter is already taken by some other option.

I have Linux, OS X, Windows and Solaris systems at home. The one with by far the best command-line experience is Debian-flavoured Linux. Living without GNU coreutils is all but intolerable on other flavours, while the reliability of apt-get for making almost everything else trivially available is hard to beat.

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#262

Post by psionski » Thu, Feb 21, 2013, 11:25 AM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #261

psionski wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to re-think the part about the fantastic command-line experience. You can't auto-complete command arguments, even if you get it working for some commands, it won't work with all of them (i.e. 3rd party tools). Of course, you can try to remember the single-letter shortcuts, but they are often illogical because the letter is already taken by some other option.

I have Linux, OS X, Windows and Solaris systems at home. The one with by far the best command-line experience is Debian-flavoured Linux. Living without GNU coreutils is all but intolerable on other flavours, while the reliability of apt-get for making almost everything else trivially available is hard to beat.

I'm on Debian (unstable) too, I like it very much! I was commenting on the command line (bash, etc.), after learning PowerShell it just seems so... primitive. It's text-oriented, so you have to parse everything and there is no automatic tab-completion except for the commands themselves (i.e. I can't type nm --ti agg for `nmap --timing aggressive`). This is normal, as bash is MUCH MUCH older than PS, so I'm not expecting it to be on par with it, but I can't help comparing them...

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#263

Post by hga » Thu, Feb 21, 2013, 4:03 PM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #199

bitsoda wrote: post #42

I still don't understand the tablet form factor. I concluded that it's not for me some time ago, but am waiting for the general population to come around to one glaring flaw: you have to hold it. For me, it doesn't matter how light a tablet is. A five pound laptop will always feel lighter since it will effectively weigh nothing because it's always on some kind of platform during use, either my lap or a flat desk/tabl…

"I still don't understand the tablet form factor. I concluded that it's not for me some time ago, but am waiting for the general population to come around to one glaring flaw: you have to hold it." What you have obliquely hit upon is what makes tablets destined to be the center of workplace computing. You CAN hold it, like a notebook or sheaf of paper. You can walk around with. You can also lay it on a table and type…

We may suffer tribulations, but I'm awfully fond of my 24 inch NEC WUXGA (1920×1200) monitor, it's hard to get enough screen space when programming. I have difficulty imagining a "tablet" form factor with a physically big enough screen for me that I'd be willing to tote around., and in an aging population this is not going to be a minor detail, e.g. to do his basic day to day online tasks my father needs a screen at least that big and not too far below IPS quality, plus of course a browser that's good at Ctrl-+.

Since I'm fond of parity/ECC, I'll continue to build my own machines out of server/workstation class components with fast SCSI/SAS disks, the later until we get good enough with SSD lifespan and all that (I can remember Ted T'so, I think it was, being horrified to learn that Firefox wrote 1.8MB of data for every page it loaded...). In my experience since 1995 this class of systems don't die before I take them out of service 5+ years later, so the investment works out pretty well depending on how I account for the opportunity cost to research, procure and build them. I like building things, so there's intangible value to that as well, and it makes it easier maintain my parents' computers.

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#264

Post by tekromancr » Thu, Feb 21, 2013, 10:38 PM UTC

tekromancr wrote: post #256

I would really like to see Canonical take the initiative and produce versions of Ubuntu Tablet that can be flashed onto popular devices. I was kind of disappointed to see them put out another one of those "Hey, does anyone want to build hardware for us?" requests. They seem to have a business model that involves getting Ubuntu running on anything and everything, but they don't have a clear path to mass market hardwar…

Nevermind... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install?action=show&redire...

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#265

Post by Zigurd » Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 8:40 AM UTC

hga wrote: post #263

Zigurd wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I still don't understand the tablet form factor. I concluded that it's not for me some time ago, but am waiting for the general population to come around to one glaring flaw: you have to hold it." What you have obliquely hit upon is what makes tablets destined to be the center of workplace computing. You CAN hold it, like a notebook or sheaf of paper. You can walk around with. You can also lay it on a table and type…

We may suffer tribulations, but I'm awfully fond of my 24 inch NEC WUXGA (1920×1200) monitor, it's hard to get enough screen space when programming. I have difficulty imagining a "tablet" form factor with a physically big enough screen for me that I'd be willing to tote around., and in an aging population this is not going to be a minor detail, e.g. to do his basic day to day online tasks my father needs a screen at…

What percentage of the workforce do you expect shares your requirements, or the rough equivalent? Probably about the same as need to build a machine for their requirements.

People like you used to be the whole PC market. Now you are less than 5%. I would argue that 95% of the PC market constitutes a kind of "overshoot" of success, since, until recently, there were no alternatives that could overcome the manufacturing efficiencies of PCs. 95% of the PC market is made of users who don't need PCs (meaning Computers they Personally control), and their PCs are locked-down and use trailing-edge versions of Windows.

Re: Ubuntu on tablets

#266

Post by hga » Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 1:13 PM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #265

hga wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may suffer tribulations, but I'm awfully fond of my 24 inch NEC WUXGA (1920×1200) monitor, it's hard to get enough screen space when programming. I have difficulty imagining a "tablet" form factor with a physically big enough screen for me that I'd be willing to tote around., and in an aging population this is not going to be a minor detail, e.g. to do his basic day to day online tasks my father needs a screen at…

What percentage of the workforce do you expect shares your requirements, or the rough equivalent? Probably about the same as need to build a machine for their requirements. People like you used to be the whole PC market. Now you are less than 5%. I would argue that 95% of the PC market constitutes a kind of "overshoot" of success, since, until recently, there were no alternatives that could overcome the manufacturing…

Agreed, which is increasingly another reason I go for server/workstation class components. There are other professionals who need this class of machines, the CAD/CAM, scientific workstation, etc. crowd who e.g. Sun used to cater to. Small numbers for sure.

The other segment I can think of are the really hard core PC gamers, who I don't have any sort of reading on (decided to give that up in the mid-late '80s to limit damage to my hands on up). 5% might be too low, but I'd accept it as a working estimate. E.g. my parents would today be well served by small unconfigurable boxes as long as they can speak to a regular big monitor, keyboard and mouse, and I plan to move them from Windows XP to something non-Windows like Chrome/Chromium OS in a year or three. Hmmm, I suppose there's also the big machine to satisfy a big ego market as well. Big machine as in way overpowered to run MS Office for a Pointy Haired Manager.

The rest of the "PC" market is as you note, although it's not inconsequential. But it has very low margin, is trailing edge in every way, and by now has got to be "mature", in that replacements almost certainly dwarf new installations, especially with the declines in new business formation. I'm not focused on it, don't know how it will move, but again something like the machines that could well serve my parents, e.g. based largely on tablet technology cores, could well disrupt it and take it over from Dell etc. as they are today.

Which I mention because there's got to be a reason Microsoft is investing in Dell going private, although it might not make much sense (e.g. the acquisition of Skype which I gather put the final nails in the coffin of Microsoft's mobile phone ambitions, since that make them radioactive to the carriers).