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I'm a shut-in. This is my story

fighttheurgetofade.com

141–150 of 239 posts

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#141
Stay strong pal. You are clearly a gifted and talented individual. However, more often than not, individuals such as yourself tend to be extremely critical of themselves. Change is hard to accomplish, especially when you're set in your ways. But I think you have solid achievable goals. FWIW I'd be your friend :)

On a side note, I didn't realize HN was becoming more and more Reddit-like every day. This is probably the first submission I've seen that reads almost like an AMA...perhaps it is a sign of things to come.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#142
Something I find interesting that I don't see immediately mentioned in the comments is what a "shut-in" or "hermit" really means when you have the internet. The author has a prolific Twitter account, and in writing this is interacting with people.

Yes, online interactions are different, but a modern-day "hermit" with access to the internet can't really be viewed as such.

Also, I may get downvoted for "armchair psychology", but I did notice elements of what seemed like thought disorder in the post. It's also diagnosed often in autism spectrum, not just with schizophrenia. I do think diagnoses generally mean very little, and "personality disorders" generally bother me because it seems like broadly defined, you could slap that on anyone - which is also the case with thought disorder. It's not like everyone who goes off on a tangent is "crazy"! But I've interacted with enough non neuroptypical type people (myself being one of them) that I did notice a similarity to others.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a voice in my head. When I learnt from reddit discussions that most people experience their inner thoughts as an inner monologue, I was flabbergasted. If I heard a voice, I would think I was going insane. I think that's pretty normal. A quick poll of the other three people in the room reveals that none of us experience an 'inner voice'. It's more like a stream of associations, some of which might involve…

I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept. I, too, do not hear a voice echoing in my head as if God was speaking inside my skull. I have a train of thought that I could directly translate to spoken words, but is not actually in words. It is more abstract; I shuffle around ideas. Sometimes I will speak aloud to myself when I'm trying to disassociate to find a new viewpoint, but that's…

As someone with a very dominant "inner voice", I have to say that, at least to me, it is exactly as having a voice echoing in my head, constantly. More precisely, I happen to think exclusively in dialogues. I imagine talking to a person, and I hear the conversation I would have with that person in my head, and their counterpoints.

It gets tiring. Recently I've taken up drawing; when I draw my head is finally quiet.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#144
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept. Amusingly, as someone with an inner voice, I used to think the same thing about the mind's eye. I couldn't visualise anything with it, and I asked someone else and he couldn't do it either, so I decided probably no one could do it. Since then I've realised that the people who talk about visualising things are... y'know, actually visualising…

Huh. I figured much the same way with mind's eye; much like my thoughts, I "visualize" in a very abstract fashion. I don't see the object, I just know it. So there are in fact people, who see it?

I figured much the same way with mind's eye; much like my thoughts, I "visualize" in a very abstract fashion. I don't see the object, I just know it. So there are in fact people, who see it?

I do. I don't really know what to say about it, so if you have any specific questions, feel free. I'll try to explain what it's like.

Example: when I see a math expression x times y, I mentally see a rectangle with side length labeled "x" and perpendicular labeled "y". So understanding (x+h)*(x+h) = x^2 + 2xh + h^2 was totally natural for me. It's not abstract symbols to me, it's pictures in my head. I see a tiny square in the upper right labeled "h^2", and a big square in the lower left labeled "x^2", and two rectangles along the edges labeled "xh".

I never memorized the derivatives of sine or cosine. I just figure them out whenever I need them. Takes a half second or so. Basically, when I need to know a derivative like sine, in my mind I pull up a function plot of sine. I look at the origin (x=0,y=0) and visually see that it passes through the origin and slopes upwards. So I know "when it starts out, sine is already sloped upwards, and as it goes along it slopes less and less, so therefore its derivative starts out as some large positive quantity and decelerates, which is exactly how cosine behaves. So the derivative of sine is cosine." For the derivative of cosine it's similar. I pull up its graph in my head and go "oh, it starts out with zero slope, but then as it goes along it slopes downwards, so it has a negative derivative. Sine starts out at zero, and negative sine would slope downwards as it goes along, so the derivative of cos is -sin." The process isn't as clearly separated as the words I'm using though.

When someone's talking with me about a program's architecture or about a design concept, I picture nodes in my head representing the components of the program. If he mentions a module, I create a new node and label it. If he says it interacts with another module, I draw a connecting line. Eventually I'll have a mental picture of the full system as we're talking.

I usually have a crisp mental picture of each function I write, before I write it. Not individual lines of code; just a clear understanding of its structure, the steps it will perform, and all possible side effects.

My favorite time is just before I nod off to sleep. Laying there with my eyes closed, a dark "hallway" seems to form in front of me, and I start to float forwards through it. Shapes begin to emerge toward me out of the blackness, and I morph them into animals or goblins or whatever I feel like molding them into. Sometimes I lose control and my mind generates horrifying faces or misshapen bodies. I see all of this with the same clarity as waking vision, and the colors are just as vivid. But it's a very narrow field of view, as if I can't see more than a spotlight's width at a time.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#145
Really interesting read. That is the first time in a while I have read something that long on the internet without skimming. A couple of thoughts:

You mentioned that your last close friend was when you were 12 and that you were in a distance high school. Do be sure that you realize that middle school was as bad as it gets in regards to social pressure to be normal. This is a different world now. Immediately out of college around your age (22?), nerds like us become pretty cool because we have interesting jobs and make a lot of money. To some extent, almost all programmers have a few social idiosyncrasies and for the most part we share these in common. So what that means for you is that those idiosyncrasies which previously got you bullied are now the same that people associate with success.

While I realize that for you it might be the only way, I think your plan in the 're-life' section is a bit misguided. Learning to be social is a fundamentally different thing from learning a new skill. There is no sense in focusing down and trying to find the core problems because social behaviors generally exist below our stream of consciousness (somewhat related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion). If you approach this in a way that you would learn a new programming language, you will also quickly find that the difference is that learning to socialize is NOT interesting or fun in an academic sense and you will quickly lose motivation. Instead, since you seem to have a lot of varied interests, I would start with a Meetup. There should be hacker or entrepreneurial groups holding meetings near you (unless of course you still live in Idaho!) The important thing is to go out and try to do things you are interested in with other people no matter how painful or awkward at first. Social behaviors will eventually be picked up subconsciously.

Measuring your progress is always a good way to motivate yourself and stay on track. But I would avoid measuring "all the human things" and instead focus on metrics like, "how many people did I say hi to today" or "how long was I outside of my room".

To make this easier for yourself (and therefore increase your chances for success), you might not want to change your name to K-2052 just yet. I think it is great move and I agree with your logic but put it to the side until you are a bit further along on your quest. Then, you will have the ability to rock the name.

And suggestions on where to move? Being in a big city is important more than anything else. I live in San Francisco and a great thing about this city is that weirdness is embraced more than anywhere else I have ever spent time. You might also think about moving to a abroad if you know any foreign languages. People will tend interpret social differences as cultural differences and you will be get a bit more wiggle-room with your weird behaviors while you come out of your shell.

I would venture to say that most of us here (myself included) feel empathy towards parts of your story so just know that you are not as different as you think you are!

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#146

I am a person who loves being social but gets in shut-in cycles. I once took 4 months and backpacked in the woods of Canada in an extreme cycle. Several points bothered me in this story, as it was a combination of honest observations and immature conclusions. 1) Life takes time, you need to be at peace with being young and not having all the solutions. 2) The author seems to suffer from observing the image of Silicon…

you need to be at peace with being young and not having all the solutions.

Err, don't you mean "you need to be at peace with not having all the solutions"? :)

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#147

Hey Ken, I see a deep internal contradiction in your belief system, and I want to point it out to you in the hopes that you can lead a happier, more fulfilled life. What is that contradiction? I want to be alone I want to make money This does not compute. Creating things for money is a fundamentally social act. And indeed, the stuff of your life was all produced by others, from the house you live in to the clothes yo…

I'm going to argue a bit. "you've been integrated into society your whole life" Not really, no - this way you would have to say that wild foxes that eat garbage from backyards or birds that nest on buildings are integrated into society. "But mere creation is not enough to make money." That's true in a sense that you need other people to give you money to have money. Obviously self-created money is useless. But mere c…

Couple of things. First, I didn't say that mere creation was useless. I said it is not enough to make money. The distinction is significant.

Second, thanks for the links. They are very good. However, I'm not sure if he's saying what you think he's saying. Throughout the second page is the tacit acknowledgment that you have to work and make money in order to live. His "most radical advice" is to not find a job that you love, but rather one that supports you with the least stress - which, by the way, I have no problem with.

Indeed, he even links to this wonderful essay, which expresses my point far more eloquently and with more erudition:

http://incharacter.org/archives/self-reliance/old-mac-donald...

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#148

I am a person who loves being social but gets in shut-in cycles. I once took 4 months and backpacked in the woods of Canada in an extreme cycle. Several points bothered me in this story, as it was a combination of honest observations and immature conclusions. 1) Life takes time, you need to be at peace with being young and not having all the solutions. 2) The author seems to suffer from observing the image of Silicon…

I completely agree with you. I would only add that even when living in a sea of talented individuals, most people will keep themselves on known waters. It takes a lot of effort to go outside of your comfort zone, but once you do, you gain a huge advantage over more talented people. Because now you feel able to do things they think are out of reach or simply don´t think of them at all. It is really being outside a bub…

"Think outside the box"

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#149

Hey Ken, I see a deep internal contradiction in your belief system, and I want to point it out to you in the hopes that you can lead a happier, more fulfilled life. What is that contradiction? I want to be alone I want to make money This does not compute. Creating things for money is a fundamentally social act. And indeed, the stuff of your life was all produced by others, from the house you live in to the clothes yo…

You, of course, have to be social to some extent with or without an income. Food isn't going to just magically appear in your fridge. But beyond short bursts of contact (which can often be automated via computer systems), I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I work as a software developer and farmer, and beyond sending an occasional email there is little need to be in contact with anyone in either profession. The…

You are completely right, randomdata: there is a minimum threshold of social contact required to maintain oneself, and there is no reason to go beyond that threshold if you don't want to.

My concern for Ken is that his essay describes him as so isolated that he's well below that threshold, and in danger of self-harm through negligence. I don't want that to happen.

I would add that, non-trivially, Ken has expressed a desire to "set the world on fire!" which, in general, has social requirements well above the minimum. (Indeed, the only way to really impact the world in isolation would be to, say, take up a science hobby while working for the Swiss patent office.)

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#150
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this why travel is so important? It forces you to have a barebones "wardrobe" and it helps you down the identity-building path?

In my view, that can go either way. Sometimes we expect a change in external scenery to change us and, after the novelty wears off, find ourselves in the same state as before. Emerson said that travel narrows the mind; I suspect he was talking about something like that.

I have always thought travel is more than a change of external scenery. Travel forces you outside of your comfort zone, away from people/places/things that are known.
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