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I'm a shut-in. This is my story

fighttheurgetofade.com

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Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#131

Post by philh »

sliverstorm wrote: post #108
crntaylor wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a voice in my head. When I learnt from reddit discussions that most people experience their inner thoughts as an inner monologue, I was flabbergasted. If I heard a voice, I would think I was going insane. I think that's pretty normal. A quick poll of the other three people in the room reveals that none of us experience an 'inner voice'. It's more like a stream of associations, some of which might involve…

I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept. I, too, do not hear a voice echoing in my head as if God was speaking inside my skull. I have a train of thought that I could directly translate to spoken words, but is not actually in words. It is more abstract; I shuffle around ideas. Sometimes I will speak aloud to myself when I'm trying to disassociate to find a new viewpoint, but that's…

> I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept.

Amusingly, as someone with an inner voice, I used to think the same thing about the mind's eye. I couldn't visualise anything with it, and I asked someone else and he couldn't do it either, so I decided probably no one could do it.

Since then I've realised that the people who talk about visualising things are... y'know, actually visualising things. It turns out that some people do and some people don't.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#132

Post by waxjar »

What I find strange is that this story even exists. If OP truly wanted to live in solitude, truly didn't want to be bothered by others, this story would have never been written. Why even bother?

I'm not suggesting it is a cry for help (though it certainly could be), but it certainly is an attempt to connect with others.

I must admit I haven't read the full story. I found it too lengthy.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#133

Post by randomdata »

javajosh wrote: post #81

Hey Ken, I see a deep internal contradiction in your belief system, and I want to point it out to you in the hopes that you can lead a happier, more fulfilled life. What is that contradiction? I want to be alone I want to make money This does not compute. Creating things for money is a fundamentally social act. And indeed, the stuff of your life was all produced by others, from the house you live in to the clothes yo…

You, of course, have to be social to some extent with or without an income. Food isn't going to just magically appear in your fridge.

But beyond short bursts of contact (which can often be automated via computer systems), I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I work as a software developer and farmer, and beyond sending an occasional email there is little need to be in contact with anyone in either profession. The former doesn't even require me to leave the house, ever.

I don't consider myself anti-social. I still enjoy social events outside of the workplace. But I see that it could be very easy to essentially disappear, while still making a decent income. They do not seem to be related concepts at all.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#134

Post by klibertp »

javajosh wrote: post #81

Hey Ken, I see a deep internal contradiction in your belief system, and I want to point it out to you in the hopes that you can lead a happier, more fulfilled life. What is that contradiction? I want to be alone I want to make money This does not compute. Creating things for money is a fundamentally social act. And indeed, the stuff of your life was all produced by others, from the house you live in to the clothes yo…

I'm going to argue a bit.

"you've been integrated into society your whole life"

Not really, no - this way you would have to say that wild foxes that eat garbage from backyards or birds that nest on buildings are integrated into society.

"But mere creation is not enough to make money."

That's true in a sense that you need other people to give you money to have money. Obviously self-created money is useless.

But mere creation is not useless if it does not produce money. One can create without even a shred of hope that his creation will give him money. And one can be very happy about it. I once knew a person who lived in the middle of the forest and was making mosaics; he tolerated guests (to some extent) but never went out to town or did anything social by his own will. And was really happy there, until he died.

"since money is vital for your very survival [...] To rail against this fact is to rail against the need to eat, or to breath."

That's absolutely not true. You can live a decent life without using money at all, or using money very sparingly. There is that one man who was "dumpster diving" and living years and years on a budged around 50$ iirc yearly. I forgot his name but he has a website and many articles detailing how exactly he pulled it off. He he is now retired and I once saw his comment here, on Hacker News...

...and I just spent half an hour to find him, because I forgot his name and really, really wanted to show you his writings. I'm feeling a bit stupid for forgetting the name, but I remember what he said clearly.

Anyway, here is the site: http://www.ranprieur.com/ and here is an essay that directly contradicts your statement: http://www.ranprieur.com/essays/dropout.html

Oh, also: we really don't need society to be breathing, you know...

"Don't worry about just "getting back to normal"."

That's right, don't worry about it. One can always go Ran Pieur's route and never. Well, I know he was socializing, but I imagine he could have such meaningful social interactions exactly because he "dropped out" from society...

Anyway, you seem to say here that people need to socialize in a way you know as "normal" to be able to live. They do not. They can choose to be outside of social norms and expectations and still live meaningful, happy life - it's rude to forget about them.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#135

Post by yuushi »

6ren wrote: post #129
unconed wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I identify with huge portions of this post. And if there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that I don't think like most other people. I don't mean "my ideas are better" or "I have superior reasoning skills". I mean "the tools that I use to reason about the world are not the same that most people appear to use". It's the only logical explanation for the fact that several popular ways in which humans commun…

> If I heard a voice It's more like talking to yourself. (There's a school of thought that language is thought; related is Sapir–Whorf). The limitation of words is a strength; it enables you to pin down ideas precisely, like butterflies for careful examination. But do it too soon, and they slip through the net. Capturing thought in words implies that thought differs from words; but words are an important tool of thou…

This is actually discussed in some length in Jacques Hadamards "The Mathematicians Mind" - although I'm certainly no psychologist or neurologist, and some of the ideas are probably incredibly out of date, it was interesting reading nonetheless.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#136

Post by klibertp »

javajosh wrote: post #77
jpxxx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't appreciate some self-loathing bitch drafting on my thoughts for misanthropy points. You know what sucks worse than trying to find competent professional medical attention in America? Blowing your head off with a gun and leaving your decomposing meat for someone to find and clean up. Those are the stakes here. This author wrote a novella about watching his life reduce to nothing, then wrapped it in a wordpress…

Of all the people replying to this thread, your responses are filled with the most love. Your anger shows that you care - and I don't think you're too off-base with your assessment, either. I think I can help you with your message in some small way by noting that social integration is not good because it's 'normal'. It's good because it's vitally necessary for survival . Human society is entirely synthetic, artificia…

"And given that 'not making money' means, essentially, starvation and death"

I can't even begin to imagine where do you live to have that drastic views...

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#137

Post by SCAQTony »

So many words defending his recreation and insisting it was a legitimate sport. It was as if he presumed the reader was judging him and he felt the need to defend himself.

I suspect some spectrum issues are involved but he is still no less of a person.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#138

Post by worktodo »

waxjar wrote: post #132

What I find strange is that this story even exists. If OP truly wanted to live in solitude, truly didn't want to be bothered by others, this story would have never been written. Why even bother? I'm not suggesting it is a cry for help (though it certainly could be), but it certainly is an attempt to connect with others. I must admit I haven't read the full story. I found it too lengthy.

Skipping to the end might give you more perspective.

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#139

Post by sliverstorm »

philh wrote: post #131
sliverstorm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept. I, too, do not hear a voice echoing in my head as if God was speaking inside my skull. I have a train of thought that I could directly translate to spoken words, but is not actually in words. It is more abstract; I shuffle around ideas. Sometimes I will speak aloud to myself when I'm trying to disassociate to find a new viewpoint, but that's…

> I'm pretty sure the "inner voice" is just a metaphor to describe a concept. Amusingly, as someone with an inner voice, I used to think the same thing about the mind's eye. I couldn't visualise anything with it, and I asked someone else and he couldn't do it either, so I decided probably no one could do it. Since then I've realised that the people who talk about visualising things are... y'know, actually visualising…

Huh. I figured much the same way with mind's eye; much like my thoughts, I "visualize" in a very abstract fashion. I don't see the object, I just know it. So there are in fact people, who see it?

Re: I'm a shut-in. This is my story

#140

Post by pdonis »

Afforess wrote: post #127
Osmium wrote: post #103

I find it interesting that a person who has shunned all outward social connections, tries to then make a social connection via the internet in retelling his story to us. Humans, whether you like it or not, have evolved to be a social species. Even if one wishes to withdraw, they can only do this in practice with the tacit permission of the society they live in, at least unless they're prepared to give up all worldly…

I had the same thought. It's a bit of a paradox. If he is living a healthy asocial lifestyle, there is little chance he would need to externalize his internal thoughts. So by writing an essay on his healthy asocial lifestyle, he contradicts himself... ------------- Edit: Seems reply below is right, I misread the article. He actually calls out his lifestyle as specifically "unhealthy". > ...my unhealthy mental state..…

He didn't say his asocial lifestyle was healthy.
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