Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#1

Post by matthewrnyc » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 9:42 PM UTC

I'm a Data Scientist at a large research lab. In my spare time, and to augment my work I develop Django+Python webapps.

I go to lots of Hackathons and regularly meet people with good ideas. We often bounce these ideas around a Google Doc and it gets to the point at which development must start. However, 99.9% of the time, the other person has no programming or technical knowledge whatsoever. They also want half the business, despite the fact that I'm the one doing all the work, pulling the long nights of coding in.

I call this the "Zuckerberg Dilemma" as its rather like Zuck and the Winklevoss twins. He did the development, they had the idea, then complained that he took it to develop by himself.

- Does anyone else have this problem?

- How did you deal with it?

- Is it illegal to just "walk off" with someone's idea?

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#2

Post by pdabbadabba » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

It's not a fun situation, but there's an obvious answer: come to grips with the fact that the idea is valuable. More specifically, it is just as valuable as you and the rest of the world make it. Negotiate. If there is a project you really want to be involved in because the other person has a really great idea, then you should be prepared to let that person keep more of the company and, by the same token, accept a smaller share for your own work. Think of the opportunity to be involved at all as its own form of compensation. By contrast, of course, many ideas will be only somewhat interesting. In cases like that, it makes sense to value your time more highly in comparison to the idea and be prepared to walk away if the idea guy wants too big a piece of the pie.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#3

Post by rdouble » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 9:58 PM UTC

Just walk off with it.

Family, religion, friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business. --Montgomery Burns

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#4

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

They also want half the business, despite the fact that I'm the one doing all the work, pulling the long nights of coding in.

No, you aren't, not if you're planning to build a real business out of it. In addition to simply having "the idea" somebody has to talk to customers, solicit feedback, do market research, evaluate and establish pricing, develop a marketing strategy, write datasheets, whitepapers, blog entries, press-releases, etc., somebody has to talk to journalists and manage PR, somebody has to track down and woo investors (if you decide to seek outside money), somebody has to sell the damn thing to somebody, somebody has to do the legwork of tracking down partners, resellers, and possible "joint venture" participants, somebody has to file the legal paperwork to create a legal entity for your venture, open a bank account, get a DUNS number, get a EIN number, etc., and etc., etc., etc...

No, the programmer really is not doing "all the work". NOW, it may be the case that the erstwhile partner who is wanting to work with you can't (or won't) do all of the things listed above. Fine, in that case, if they can't code and they aren't putting in any money, don't work with them. But you should probably know whether or not they are a coder, or a legitimate "business person" (as opposed to "Just an idea guy") before you spend any substantial time working with them in the first place. These are questions to ask up front.

Keep in mind though, that the non-coder has plenty of value to bring to the table (and if they don't provide any of these things, walk away): connections with customers, connections with investors, deep domain expertise, marketing / positioning / biz development knowledge, sales closing ability, etc., etc.

- Does anyone else have this problem?

I don't think the problem you are describing even exists, as such. The whole premise seems rooted in a lack of awareness of the importance of all the "other stuff" besides coding that goes into building a business.

- How did you deal with it?

See above. I'm a developer who has forced himself to walk on the "business side of the fence" the past few years exactly because we don't have that "business guy" to lean on. So I'm not just talking out my ass here... I've learned first hand, this stuff is fracking hard and is easily just as much work as the coding and is just as important.

- Is it illegal to just "walk off" with someone's idea?

Depends on a lot of details, most likely. But it's somewhat of a dick move, whether it's legal or not.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#5

Post by wmf » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 10:12 PM UTC

The HN conventional wisdom:

People who only contribute ideas are losers and even bouncing ideas around is probably a waste of your time. Actually partnering with such a person sounds like a total waste of time. There's much more to making something work than just the idea and the code — who's going to do the "business" stuff like marketing or customer development? If you want to do that part yourself (patio11 style) then you don't need a partner. If you don't just want to do the programming, find a business partner who you trust and who has skills then start brainstorming ideas.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#6

Post by runarb » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 10:13 PM UTC

Others have argued that there's no room for the idea guy: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2188-theres-no-room-for-the-i...

I don't necessary agreed 100%, but a good read.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#7

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 10:24 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #5

The HN conventional wisdom: People who only contribute ideas are losers and even bouncing ideas around is probably a waste of your time. Actually partnering with such a person sounds like a total waste of time. There's much more to making something work than just the idea and the code — who's going to do the "business" stuff like marketing or customer development? If you want to do that part yourself (patio11 style)…

People who only contribute ideas are losers and even bouncing ideas around is probably a waste of your time. Actually partnering with such a person sounds like a total waste of time.

Indeed. I think it's very important to distinguish between "just an idea" guy and an actual valuable "business guy". J. Random Stranger off the street with the idea of "Pinterest + Basecamp For Dogs With Lyme Disease" is one thing... an experienced sales/marketing executive with deep connections, domain knowledge and real world experience in a domain relevant to the idea, is a whole different ballgame.

Of course, that's not to say that a person would have to have been a VP at a Fortune 500 to be a "real business person". But they would at least need some baseline business know-how and a willingness to dive in and learn marketing, branding, positioning, PR, customer development, etc., etc.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#8

Post by johngalt » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 11:18 PM UTC

'Idea guys' are common, and almost universally not worth dealing with. If idea guys provided value, why are all the job postings for developers? Why isn't Microsoft trying to H1-B idea guys from India?

This is not to say all non-tech people are worthless. Look for someone with domain specific knowledge and connections. Someone who has a plan to contribute more than just an idea.

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#9

Post by coryl » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 11:21 PM UTC

Have you tried discussing the stake with them? What's their response when you tell them you'll be doing most of the work?

Re: Zuckerberg Dilemma: I do the programming, but the guy w/ the idea gets 50%

#10

Post by aashaykumar92 » Wed, Feb 20, 2013, 11:45 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #4

They also want half the business, despite the fact that I'm the one doing all the work, pulling the long nights of coding in. No, you aren't, not if you're planning to build a real business out of it. In addition to simply having "the idea" somebody has to talk to customers, solicit feedback, do market research, evaluate and establish pricing, develop a marketing strategy, write datasheets, whitepapers, blog entries,…

Excellent response! Just to briefly add on, in the initial building of a product, website, or whatever it is, the programmer may be doing most of the work to get that prototype or beta version built. HOWEVER, if the idea is going to be executed successfully, the person with the initial idea will most likely be doing his/her share of grunt work whether that be in researching the target market, developing an initial business plan, or meeting customers.

Conclusion: One person programs, the other focuses on sales and the business operations. It's the perfect combination so as long as both put in their due diligence.