Live data from Hacker News

Opera sends 90 out the door

translate.google.com

111–120 of 120 posts

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#111
post #94
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speculate, and I don't think that's particularly helpful. The 2010 downsizing was quite transparent. This time no ordinary employees seem to have the full picture of what exactly is going in.

Who says employees don't have the full picture? The reasons are even stated in public. Why would they be terrified of speaking in public -- and if they are, why are several people doing it? You say that speculating is not particularly useful, and you still speculate that people are terrified of Opera Software, and that the company is lying to its investors about the number of employees?

I’m not sure there are many former employees that are speaking out in public. The ones I’ve seen are my own (obviously), Chaals, and Wilhelm’s comment here. All of us left of our own free will, (long) before these latest layoffs happened. I‘m not sure I’ve seen anything from anyone directly effected (not that this doesn't mean people have and I missed it).

I‘m not saying there is any fear involved, or a conspiracy theory, just that I haven't seen this as the case, bar private posts, and tweets from some that they left the company. When Google laid a large number off at Motorola (of which I was included), there was some sort of agreement in the package about not speaking bad of the company or products. This could be the case here, I don't know.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#112
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, Wilhelm. I hear you've been bringing up my name quite a lot lately. I'm happy to oblige, of course. > Those laid off are terrified to say anything publicly. Could you, for the sake of clarity, explain why you think that is? What are they afraid of? I'm also wondering how you reconcile this with not only the comments from previous employees on sites like Twitter, but also to the press: http://techcrunch.c…

> Is the Opera you knew gone? That depends on what the Opera you knew was. The Opera Software I knew and loved was a technology company filled with some of the most brilliant engineers I have ever met. Despite being a tiny company halfway across the world from where the real action happened, it managed to conjure up some amazing stuff. The financial margins were slim, the salaries crappy, and the the roof of our dere…

Ok, you didn't really answer most of my questions, but you did have a really long reply for one of them.

I'm still somewhat confused. Your description seems to contradict most your previous statements. You seem to be saying that the new management actually had to clean up after the old one because of all the bad decisions you claim were made. You seem to be saying that "the former management made terrible decisions for the company and product, but at least we all had a good time". I don't necessarily agree, but that seems to be the gist of what you are saying.

You are disappointed in the "new management" and yet your comment is about the "old management".

In fact, judging by your description, motivation at the company must have been at rock bottom even several years ago, when your previous comments would have people believe that everything was fine. Once again, I don't necessarily agree. I'm just going by your own description here.

> The company culture was egalitarian. Decisions were not made in some ivory tower

And those decisions, you later claim, were apparently the wrong ones. How does that fit your argument?

> Apple and Mozilla's products, at this time, struggled with the same site compatibility issues as we did in this Microsoft era.

I wouldn't say that. Mozilla had the advantage of the Netscape legacy, and Apple had the advantage of designers usually being on Macs (and despite its limited market share, Apple was loved by the press, giving the company far more influence than its market position would otherwise indicate).

> Not to mention the failed projects we poured resources into, draining all departments for the people they needed just to _catch_up_ to the competition.

Weren't these projects started by the old management, in the old egalitarian company culture you claim existed but is now gone?

> Suddenly, without warning, the guy next to you - who had been there for a decade - would be leaving.

But wasn't that his own decision? Wasn't that guy given the chance to choose himself whether to leave or not? Whether he felt he could live with the technology switch?

See, I have another problem with your criticism of the new management and praise of the old management. You mentioned the 2010 layoffs, and you seem to be saying that it was better to come up with what you claim was a bullshit excuse (economic downturn) to justify it? Once again I must stress that I am not saying that you are right or wrong as that is not my point. I'm questioning the consistency of your claims.

I think most people would agree that it's better to say nothing than to tell a lie. You seems to be accusing the old management of telling lies during the downsizing in 2010.

At least now we have made a major acquisition, which the management obviously could not discuss when the downsizing actually took place. It seems logical that one wishes to save money when buying something expensive, and try to avoid too large of a loan.

> When things got difficult, one would blame Microsoft, as if taking the moral high ground would make any difference.

Isn't this the old management again? And have you not just been arguing that taking the moral high ground is good? That morals are more important than doing what's right for the business? The egalitarian company which makes all the wrong decisions but everyone is having fun is better than the top management making a technology decision that some in the company may not agree with (or God forbid, passionate former employees do not agree with)?

> We should have thrown out that ugly ad-banner instantly. Dropped the old paid model the moment Phoenix came into existence.

You may not recall the round of layoffs back then. A company can't support further development without any revenue, after all. You can't just drop one of your main sources of revenue without knowing that you can replace it. And even when we did remove the ads, it was not certain that it would work. It probably would, but it was not a certainty.

> I spent seven years of my life on this project. Now it's gone.

Yes, I'm sure it's frustrating to see someting you've worked hard on for years disappear, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision.

Opera as you knew it is gone, you say. But the Opera you knew doesn't sound all that great if we are to judge by your passionate description of the state of affairs at the time.

All those decisions that you say were so terrible... they were made under the old "good management", in the culture you have just praised. It seems to me you can't have it both ways. You can't have engineers make all the decisions, and then first complain that this power was taken away from them, and later complain that the decision that were made under the system you praised were bad ones.

You want a technology-driven company where everyone gets to make or influence decisions, but you also claim that this led to major problems.

See, I can't get it to make any sense. While you seem passionate about this, it just doesn't sound logical or consistent.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#113
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, Wilhelm. I hear you've been bringing up my name quite a lot lately. I'm happy to oblige, of course. > Those laid off are terrified to say anything publicly. Could you, for the sake of clarity, explain why you think that is? What are they afraid of? I'm also wondering how you reconcile this with not only the comments from previous employees on sites like Twitter, but also to the press: http://techcrunch.c…

> Is the Opera you knew gone? That depends on what the Opera you knew was. The Opera Software I knew and loved was a technology company filled with some of the most brilliant engineers I have ever met. Despite being a tiny company halfway across the world from where the real action happened, it managed to conjure up some amazing stuff. The financial margins were slim, the salaries crappy, and the the roof of our dere…

I'd like to briefly return to your first comment, because I've been trying to understand the essence of your criticism:

> You see, I'm not angry about the switch to WebKit. I'm disappointed that due to years of mistakes, this has become inevitable. Saying "18 years of development has been futile - our codebase is worthless, and will be dropped" is no victory. It's surrender. We lost, and it's our own fault. Stop blaming others - we brought this onto ourselves.

> I'm not surprised about the layoffs. I'm angry that my friends and old co-workers, who I care a lot about, are treated like crap. The last half of the layoffs, mentioned in the Q4 report, seem to have been handled moderately well. The first half (affecting Core) seemed random and arbitrary, lasting weeks - and nobody knew who was next. Suddenly, without warning, the guy next to you - who had been there for a decade - would be leaving. WTF was going on?

I thought I'd focus a bit on this part, because it seems to explain the source of your frustration.

To recap:

You are not angry about the switch to WebKit (decision by the "new management"). You are disappointed in the mistakes by the "old management" which resulted in the "new management" making the switch. So it seems you don't like the move to WebKit after all.

You are OK with the second part of the process (where you seemed to say that people should have been lied to like you claimed happene under the old management instead of what actually happened), but not the first part.

But the first part is where people were given an offer rather than outright fired. I'm assuming that those who had a specific role in the new organization did not get an offer, while those who may not have a specific role yet did. Does this make sense to you?

That the first part of the process lasted for a while is probably because it took a while to figure out what position needed to be filled across the company. If there is no specific position to fill for someone, should he be allowed to choose to get another job, or wait even longer to see if there's a position he can fill when it all settles down?

So what it all boils down to is that you think the first part (where parts the company was restructured, and roles and tasks were not clear right away) was handled poorly. Was it really? I don't know all the details, but I can see a clear and logical reason for why things were done this way, rather than anything being arbitrary, sudden and unfair.

And those who could not accept the move to WebKit at least had a chance to get out with a decent severance package.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#114
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, Wilhelm. I hear you've been bringing up my name quite a lot lately. I'm happy to oblige, of course. > Those laid off are terrified to say anything publicly. Could you, for the sake of clarity, explain why you think that is? What are they afraid of? I'm also wondering how you reconcile this with not only the comments from previous employees on sites like Twitter, but also to the press: http://techcrunch.c…

> Is the Opera you knew gone? That depends on what the Opera you knew was. The Opera Software I knew and loved was a technology company filled with some of the most brilliant engineers I have ever met. Despite being a tiny company halfway across the world from where the real action happened, it managed to conjure up some amazing stuff. The financial margins were slim, the salaries crappy, and the the roof of our dere…

All this ranting and you didn't have the balls to mention Opera Unite? Weak, dude.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#115
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, Wilhelm. I hear you've been bringing up my name quite a lot lately. I'm happy to oblige, of course. > Those laid off are terrified to say anything publicly. Could you, for the sake of clarity, explain why you think that is? What are they afraid of? I'm also wondering how you reconcile this with not only the comments from previous employees on sites like Twitter, but also to the press: http://techcrunch.c…

> Is the Opera you knew gone? That depends on what the Opera you knew was. The Opera Software I knew and loved was a technology company filled with some of the most brilliant engineers I have ever met. Despite being a tiny company halfway across the world from where the real action happened, it managed to conjure up some amazing stuff. The financial margins were slim, the salaries crappy, and the the roof of our dere…

I think Haavard is a strikebreaker now. It's a shame that he took the money for PR-in Chromium.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#116
post #99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It breaks my heart to see how the current management treats some of the best engineers I've ever met, loyal to the company for a decade, like disposable rubbish. Well now, were those engineers not paid every month for a decade? What more does Opera owe them?

Oh, they were paid. About 20-30% less than they could have made elsewhere. Money matters less when you love what you do, and you know the company is struggling. And when the company yields record profits, they are kicked out. A little human decency would be nice.

Opera hasn't been struggling for years. It's had record profits for a long time by now.

People weren't kicked out until Opera needed cash to buy Skyfire.

Human decency sounds strange coming from you when you're bashing the work of your former colleagues.

These people had a job they loved for x years. Not the employer's fault if people decided to stick around instead of getting another job.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the Opera you knew gone? That depends on what the Opera you knew was. The Opera Software I knew and loved was a technology company filled with some of the most brilliant engineers I have ever met. Despite being a tiny company halfway across the world from where the real action happened, it managed to conjure up some amazing stuff. The financial margins were slim, the salaries crappy, and the the roof of our dere…

I think Haavard is a strikebreaker now. It's a shame that he took the money for PR-in Chromium.

Looks like not everyone has been paying attention.

Hint..theres no strike

Its a shame people who dont pay attention are flapping their gums like that.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#118
post #97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It breaks my heart to see how the current management treats some of the best engineers I've ever met, loyal to the company for a decade, like disposable rubbish. Well now, were those engineers not paid every month for a decade? What more does Opera owe them?

If they declined more lucrative offers out of a team spirit, they deserve similar in return. There is a human side to business.

They got a job for many years. It isn't the employer's fault if the employee declined other offers because he was having too much fun where he was.

The employer can't keep track of how much everyone is having and pay them accordingly.

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#119
post #99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It breaks my heart to see how the current management treats some of the best engineers I've ever met, loyal to the company for a decade, like disposable rubbish. Well now, were those engineers not paid every month for a decade? What more does Opera owe them?

Oh, they were paid. About 20-30% less than they could have made elsewhere. Money matters less when you love what you do, and you know the company is struggling. And when the company yields record profits, they are kicked out. A little human decency would be nice.

Adding to the comment about being paid less:

You are leaving out employee benefits. Free, hot lunch every day. Generous pension savings. Free insurance of various kinds covering not just the employee, but also the family. Free phone + subscription. Subsidized gym memberships. Massage. The list goes on.

If you factor in all the employee benefits the result is a much higher "salary."

Re: Opera sends 90 out the door

#120
post #96
post #22

It's worse than the article describes. Those laid off are terrified to say anything publicly. From what I can gather, the total may be double the quoted number. In addition, morale is at rock bottom, with a number of people leaving on their own. Opera as we knew it is gone. I worked for Opera for seven years, three of them managing the core testing team. I left a year ago. It breaks my heart to see how the current ma…

It breaks my heart to see how the current management treats some of the best engineers I've ever met, loyal to the company for a decade, like disposable rubbish. Well now, were those engineers not paid every month for a decade? What more does Opera owe them?

Loyalty is a one way street.
Post reply on HN