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Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

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Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#41

Post by xentronium »

camkego wrote: post #31
xentronium wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guess can be a little more specific: Microsoft saw what the verdict said about Java and was concerned for what it meant for C#. Oracle having less control over Java because languages are not copyrightable means Microsoft has less control over C#. > C# is important to Microsoft, so it's going to make an effort to maintain full control over it. C# is ECMA standard.

It sounds like part of the issue might be the copyrighting of APIs, not the language.

This seems more plausible. I'd guess they are strongly against emulating Windows API system calls in projects like reactos or wine.

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#42

Post by lucian1900 »

callumjones wrote: post #5

Does Microsoft actually have a vested interest specifically in the use of Java by Google, such as being upset that Google had free use of the Java APIs while itself was scolded for implementing their own JVM? Or is it basically "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

They likely want APIs to be copywritable.

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#43

Post by jan_g »

taligent wrote: post #39
cromwellian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of all web businesses founded since the dot com era have had ads as their business model, because of either, failure to get a universal, easy to use, micropayment system standardized at the start of the Web, or because people came to experience surfing to be transaction-cost free, most people are unwilling to pay for web services, and if you think ads are annoying, how annoying is signing up for an…

You clearly don't understand Google. They earn over 95% of their revenue from SELLING advertising. The other parts of their business e.g. search, mail, maps consume advertising like other web businesses. You are trying to equate the selling from the consumption which is illogical.

Yup, but you could say that for many IT companies. Why? Because most of them are getting money by utilizing advertising in one form or another. Is Twitter an advertising company? Is Facebook?

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#44

Post by OGinparadise »

cromwellian wrote: post #29
OGinparadise wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't start out thinking, for example, "How can I increase ad revenue by making voice recognition better." No offense, yet ad revenue magically it increase quarter after quarter after quarter. Surprise? FYI: You are an ad company, a cutthroat and an annoying one too (I am about to use adblock.) Yes, advertising is the majority revenue product Consider the "moonshots" as HR advertising and to get Google press. Vi…

When you find a way to hire 10,000 top engineers and scientists and put them to work on exciting web services with a decent salary (deployed on the most scaleable and power efficient datacenters out there), much of which, the average person loves to use, but won't pay for, and without using tax dollars or scraping by on donations, let me know, I've love to do a start up with you. Did you pay for Netscape when they us…

"Most of the meteoric rise can be traced simply to growth in the online audience and a switch-over from print to digital"

Until 2007 maybe, but now you're 85%-100% ads on all commercial topics and most users probably don't realize it yet. Face it, that's the truth. Enjoy your paycheck and stock grants but there's nothing to feel proud about your company. Every time business owners growl about less traffic and penalties from "unbiased Google", magically Google's revenue grow by another 30%.

we like working on interesting or hard problems, just like any collection of geeky engineers and scientists. That I get paid to do what I'm passionate about

Hard problems...like intercepting user intent and not sending them to sites but to Adwords links? That's what your real boss, Nikesh Arora said during his conference call. Or making the background as close to white and hide the ad disclaimers as possible?

You sound Carmela Soprano "I'm just a housewife, cooking for my husband, I don't know where the money to support me comes from."

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#46

Post by cromwellian »

taligent wrote: post #39
cromwellian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of all web businesses founded since the dot com era have had ads as their business model, because of either, failure to get a universal, easy to use, micropayment system standardized at the start of the Web, or because people came to experience surfing to be transaction-cost free, most people are unwilling to pay for web services, and if you think ads are annoying, how annoying is signing up for an…

You clearly don't understand Google. They earn over 95% of their revenue from SELLING advertising. The other parts of their business e.g. search, mail, maps consume advertising like other web businesses. You are trying to equate the selling from the consumption which is illogical.

Is Apple a phone carrier not a consumer electronics company, since a huge chunk of their revenues come from carrier subsidies that lock consumers into multiyear contracts that obfuscate the true costs (e.g. $2200)?

Google is spending so much of its revenue on other ideas like Glasses and self-driving cars, not for PR purposes, although it does garner positive PR, but because getting 95% of you revenue from a single source is risky in the long term, and they are obviously trying to diversify.

If you want to describe Google as an advertising company, go ahead, but that is a grossly under-descriptive term of what the company truly does, as poor a description as calling Amazon just a retail store.

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#47

Post by OGinparadise »

cromwellian wrote: post #32
r00fus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Google, but let's be honest. A company's source of revenue (and what it does with that revenue) determines what it is.

The vast majority of all web businesses founded since the dot com era have had ads as their business model, because of either, failure to get a universal, easy to use, micropayment system standardized at the start of the Web, or because people came to experience surfing to be transaction-cost free, most people are unwilling to pay for web services, and if you think ads are annoying, how annoying is signing up for an…

If you look at Android or Chrome, they are both large projects, that did not start out to generate ad revenue, but both to improve mobile and the web, and to build a defensive moat that would prevent a competitor from controlling the on-ramps

How sweet of you, must be the coolaid :). Google controls what % of mobile advertising? Where would that be without Android and the many Google Apps that come as a package? Defensive moat or trying to get more ad dollars by learning location, habits and everything else?

Google's business model: Show mostly, to almost all ads to people searching for information that can be monetized. You went from 1 ad on the right to 5 on top, 10 on sides, 2 on the bottom and then another 10 Google pages. That ad money is being passed as price increase to consumers. Enjoy your monopoly, but you will be disrupted.

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#48

Post by [deleted] »

r00fus wrote: post #28
cromwellian wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common refrain, sometimes used as a slight, as if Google is just another Don Draper firm, that just happens to have some tech in its portfolio. As a rank-and-file Googler, my personal experience is that most Google engineers perceive that we are a technology company and advertising is often off in the edges of their mind. Yes, advertising is the majority revenue product, but like many startups, the people w…

I love Google, but let's be honest. A company's source of revenue (and what it does with that revenue) determines what it is.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#49

Post by cromwellian »

OGinparadise wrote: post #44
cromwellian wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you find a way to hire 10,000 top engineers and scientists and put them to work on exciting web services with a decent salary (deployed on the most scaleable and power efficient datacenters out there), much of which, the average person loves to use, but won't pay for, and without using tax dollars or scraping by on donations, let me know, I've love to do a start up with you. Did you pay for Netscape when they us…

"Most of the meteoric rise can be traced simply to growth in the online audience and a switch-over from print to digital" Until 2007 maybe, but now you're 85%-100% ads on all commercial topics and most users probably don't realize it yet. Face it, that's the truth. Enjoy your paycheck and stock grants but there's nothing to feel proud about your company. Every time business owners growl about less traffic and penalti…

Oh snap!

Re: Microsoft sides with Oracle against Google in Java appeal

#50

Post by flyinRyan »

jan_g wrote: post #43
taligent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly don't understand Google. They earn over 95% of their revenue from SELLING advertising. The other parts of their business e.g. search, mail, maps consume advertising like other web businesses. You are trying to equate the selling from the consumption which is illogical.

Yup, but you could say that for many IT companies. Why? Because most of them are getting money by utilizing advertising in one form or another. Is Twitter an advertising company? Is Facebook?

>Is Twitter an advertising company? Is Facebook?

Are these serious questions? Of course they are. What else?

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