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Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

mauriciogardini.com

61–70 of 74 posts

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#61
post #2

Am I the only one who hardly sees any value in window managers? About 99% of the time, I'm wanting only one window visible at a time, with others quickly accessible via cmd-tab and cmd=`.

Maybe on my Macbook Air (and even then, it's almost always Chrome/Sublime side by side, or Sublime/terminal), but there is no application that needs my full 2560x1440 resolution. I can have two columns of my text editor, documentation and a terminal up. But I usually layer my terminal over my text editor and have it "stick to top". Just another thing I had to "hack" to make work in OS X that works out of the box in a…

> With Ubuntu working perfectly out of the box on my MBA, I don't know why more people don't just take the step and use Linux instead.

Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.)

Because it runs hotter.

Because the poor graphics drivers (for my rMBP) mean that it's running hotter for nothing.

Because tiled window managers are not a solution for any problems I have.

Because Ubuntu doesn't have Mission Control.

Because IntelliJ isn't very good on Linux.

Because Xcode doesn't exist on Linux.

Because VMware Fusion doesn't exist on Linux and VirtualBox is insufficient.

Because MacVim is nicer than GVim.

.

That Linux fits you is great; this stupid faux-mystified "I don't know why more people don't use this niche thing I like" is not.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people -- I'm one of them -- find that switching whole windows seems to pop the mental stack. That's really interesting! I have the opposite problem - switching windows doesn't pop my mental stack, but if there's anything on the screen other than what I'm trying to focus on, it keeps diverting my attention and ruining my concentration. Fullscreen emacs on OSX (without even the system menu bar!) is just awesom…

How do you get true fullscreen mode in Emacs on OS X?

In addition to the mac-specific ways, if you set your Terminal app to Fullscreen (the double diagonal arrows on the top right of Lion+), you can just invoke emacs from the command line. I did this while evaluating whether emacs+evil was something I'd be interested in and it worked just fine.

To be honest, I spend most of my time using OSX in a single fullscreen Terminal.app inside tmux.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#63
post #2

Am I the only one who hardly sees any value in window managers? About 99% of the time, I'm wanting only one window visible at a time, with others quickly accessible via cmd-tab and cmd=`.

I'm using the "awesome WM" under Linux and I find it much more convenient to have "virtual desktops" and always organize them the same way (1 for personal GMail + Google Docs, 2 for terminals, 3 for Emacs, 4 for professional email, 5 for an IDE, 6 for browsing the web, etc.) and be able to directly go to the one desktop that I need using a shortcut.

It's beats tabbing / cycling between opened apps any day.

As a side benefit, each virtual desktop can have it's own windows layouts: you like your GMail / Google Docs to be full screen, use a full screen layout. You like your IDE to use 2/3rd of the screen and a browser used for testing to use the rest: so be it.

The problem with your method is that you lose lost of time tabbing / cycling and then for the 1% of the time where you need a layout more complicated than "one windows visible" you spend time picking up the windows you want to show (and potentially manually fine-tuning their position using the mouse).

So you hardly see any value in a window manager but others hardly see the value in losing time tabbing / cycling endlessly between apps when a single shortcut can display the app(s) they want in the layout they want.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe on my Macbook Air (and even then, it's almost always Chrome/Sublime side by side, or Sublime/terminal), but there is no application that needs my full 2560x1440 resolution. I can have two columns of my text editor, documentation and a terminal up. But I usually layer my terminal over my text editor and have it "stick to top". Just another thing I had to "hack" to make work in OS X that works out of the box in a…

> With Ubuntu working perfectly out of the box on my MBA, I don't know why more people don't just take the step and use Linux instead. Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.) Because it runs hotter. Because the poor graphics drivers (for my rMBP) mean that it's running hotter for nothing. Because tiled window managers are not a solution for any problems I have. Because Ubuntu doesn't have Mission Control.…

>Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.)

Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now.

>Because it runs hotter.

Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watching Flash videos. Certainly not while playing TF2.

>Because the poor graphics drivers (for my rMBP) mean that it's running hotter for nothing.

Linux is getting switching support. It's already useable.

>Because tiled window managers are not a solution for any problems I have.

I don't use a titling window manager. Besides, "I don't need those features" is a pretty sad arguing point.

>Because Ubuntu doesn't have Mission Control.

KWin, Compiz and Mutter ALL have support for Expose. KWin's implementation is actually nearly identical to the Mac implementation. In fact, they've had it for as long or longer than OS X has had it.

>Because IntelliJ isn't very good on Linux.

As someone who pays for an uses IntelliJ, I don't even know what the hell that means.

>Because Xcode doesn't exist on Linux.

And that's a good thing.

>Because VMware Fusion doesn't exist on Linux and VirtualBox is insufficient.

LOL. Is this even a serious point? Hello? VMWare Workstation? KVM+QEMU? Xen?

>Because MacVim is nicer than GVim.

Are you fucking kidding me?

>"niche thing"

Oh you're cute. I shouldn't have wasted my time replying to an obvious troll.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#65
post #5

Back in the Dark Ages, before OS X was truly usable, I rocked ion on my FreeBSD machine and MachTEN (to run Emacs) on my Macs. This experience conditioned me to not fight the platform -- slate, as nice as it looks, seems to me a great deal like fighting the platform. Is it?

I feel like this kind of thing extends the platform rather than fighting it. I don't use Slate (yet), but currently use a modified version of ShiftIt (I added resizing to percents) which does some window management. OS X lacks a way to resize/arrange windows without the mouse and this kind of software fills in the gap. I don't feel like this is fighting the platform (especially since Apple does not provide an alternative to this), but rather it is building on top of the platform.

I also use Butler for another option for app switching/launching (Spotlight doesn't do this how I want it) and also to make Emacs PGUP/PGDN keys (Alt-V/Ctrl-V) work in every app. I also configured Cocoa for more Emacs-like functionality to extend the existing Emacs keyboard shortcuts it already supports. And I use BetterTouchTool to add volume up/down/mute to my mouse buttons.

That's a lot of changes to the way the default platform works, and I have grown to depend on all these modifications, but it makes OS X work more like how I want it to work, and I think that is absolutely worth doing. I wasn't really completely happy with OS X until I had these things in place. That these changes are made through 3rd party software without any horrible hacks (that I know of) makes me feel like this is extending rather than fighting.

On the otherhand, I do occasionally jailbreak my iPhone, and generally end up reverting back to stock, because that is fighting the platform.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With Ubuntu working perfectly out of the box on my MBA, I don't know why more people don't just take the step and use Linux instead. Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.) Because it runs hotter. Because the poor graphics drivers (for my rMBP) mean that it's running hotter for nothing. Because tiled window managers are not a solution for any problems I have. Because Ubuntu doesn't have Mission Control.…

>Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.) Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now. >Because it runs hotter. Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watchi…

> Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now.

> Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watching Flash videos. Certainly not while playing TF2.

That doesn't square with my experiences with my 2011 Air or my 2012 retina MBP, each running 12.04 (I avoid non-LTS releases on machines I need to work everyday). I'm glad it works for you. It did not for me, and I am disinclined to spend time fiddling with it when OS X works out of the box.

I already have a really nice Unix that works on the hardware without me doing anything (and lets me run Linux in a VM if I really need it)--I think it is understandable that switching is going to require being really impressed by the challenger to switch from the incumbent.

> Linux is getting switching support. It's already useable.

The closed-source nVidia drivers are a pain in the ass to use, though, and nouveau isn't up to snuff. Multi-monitor support is also simply not good enoughl the baseline isn't "usable", it's "as good as OS X", and, for me, I don't find TwinView (is there a different hack for 3+ monitors now?) as don't-have-to-care-about-it as OS X.

> I don't use a titling window manager. Besides, "I don't need those features" is a pretty sad arguing point.

Why? That makes no sense. If I don't need feature A, that feature A is available means it is not a plus for my use case.

> KWin, Compiz and Mutter ALL have support for Expose. KWin's implementation is actually nearly identical to the Mac implementation. In fact, they've had it for as long or longer than OS X has had it.

I realize that. I'm not referring to Expose, I'm referring to the dynamic workspace allocation (which, after using it, I prefer to the "4 virtual workspaces" approach) and the really very nice gesture support that doesn't exist out-of-the-box in Ubuntu. (While it may exist in some other form, if I have to do anything beyond "turn it on" I'm basically uninterested.)

If your OS doesn't do the little things I want, investing time into the bigger things doesn't make a lot of sense. This may be a recurring theme here.

> As someone who pays for an uses IntelliJ, I don't even know what the hell that means.

IntelliJ's font rendering was/is hosed in Ubuntu 12.04 out of the box and looked absolutely terrible. There may be a fix for it, but I didn't bother to look because the benefits to Ubuntu over OS X were not, for me, significant enough to invest time into solving the problem.

> [re: Xcode] And that's a good thing.

See, there you go. Your priorities do not mesh with mine or with others'. Why would you expect that they use your OS of choice if the tools of their choice do not exist?

I like Xcode. I like it more than Eclipse or QtCreator or KDevelop and I like it much more than vim+ctags. If the tools I like do not exist on a platform, that platform had better provide a big enough benefit to make me want to switch--and, your rageposting notwithstanding, Linux does not. Sorry?

> LOL. Is this even a serious point? Hello? VMWare Workstation? KVM+QEMU? Xen?

Yes, it's quite serious. KVM+QEMU does not (AFAIK--I may be wrong) have one-click out-of-the-box support for accelerated graphics. I did not examine Xen, but a cursory Google looks like more work than it's worth unless the OS otherwise makes a switch worthwhile (which it did not).

VMware Workstation did not have VMware Fusion-level support for accelerated graphics last I looked; maybe Workstation 9 is better, but I have not checked. I play games through VMware Fusion; just played XCOM on my flight today from Boston to Nashville. Having good graphics acceleration in my virtual machine matters to me.

> [re: MacVim/GVim] Are you fucking kidding me?

No, I'm quite serious. MacVim solves my biggest beef with GVim (the lack of good windowed-environment shortcuts) by melding in the OS X shortcuts--which also happen to be out-of-band keystrokes that Vim can't misinterpret. (This is also a plus to terminal usage on OS X; I often find myself highlighting something--I don't like copy on highlight--and reflexively pressing Ctrl-C on Linux or a Windows SSH session. I often find myself regretting it. I used to think OS X's Command key was stupid...but after a while using it, I vastly prefer it to the alternative.)

> Oh you're cute. I shouldn't have wasted my time replying to an obvious troll.

Even among developers, Linux on the desktop is a small minority. Maybe "niche" was understating it a little, but...not by much.

Anyway, different priorities does not imply trolling. I'm glad your solution works for you. I assumed you asked in good faith why someone would choose not to use Linux. I answered. You are not going to win either converts or e-points by judging my needs based on your preferences.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.) Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now. >Because it runs hotter. Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watchi…

> Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now. > Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watching Flash videos. Certainly not while playing TF2. That doesn't square with…

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Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the battery life is worse. (I have tested.) Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now. >Because it runs hotter. Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watchi…

> Not any more. I've owned MBA for 3 years now and have been using Ubuntu on the 2012 model for the last three months. I get every bit of battery life in Linux that I do in OS X. This wasn't true a year ago, but it is now. > Not any more. Certainly not during day to day tasks. Certainly not during routine development. Certainly not while watching Flash videos. Certainly not while playing TF2. That doesn't square with…

>The closed-source nVidia drivers are a pain in the ass to use, though, and nouveau isn't up to snuff. Multi-monitor support is also simply not good enoughl the baseline isn't "usable", it's "as good as OS X", and, for me, I don't find TwinView (is there a different hack for 3+ monitors now?) as don't-have-to-care-about-it as OS X.

Why didn't you just say "I've haven't used it lately" and be done with it.

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#69
post #14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so. But I don't see a problem with that. OSX window management currently satisfies average users, but not power users. And since power users are exactly the kind of people who can do something about it, they are doing it.

What, exactly, is your definition of "power user"?

Can't speak for the OP, but mine is someone who is sufficiently comfortable that they will happily accept increased complexity for improved productivity.

(Like so many labels it spans a range on a continuum, but the thresholds should be fairly intuitively obvious.)

Re: Slate: a Mac OS X window manager for power users

#70

Or, if he wants something even closer to xmonad: https://github.com/fjolnir/xnomad It works really well. Been using it for a while. The only real complaint I have about it is that it's based on xmonad instead of dwm, so a chosen unfocused window swaps with the focused window when you change focus instead of the formerly focused window being pushed to the top of a stack. But for working as a userspace program on OS X…

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