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BBC demands DRM for HTML5

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Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#71
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, all popular DRM schemes have been circumvented. In principle, any DRM scheme can be circumvented unless the hardware that decrypts the content (and therefore holds the private key in memory) self-destructs when tampered with. This is a battle that content providers want to win. They can always find some plucky technologist saying that have an unbreakable DRM scheme. In the end, the question is whether DRM real…

Then kill the content providers dead for all I care; let's talk about content creators instead. I mean, just consider the evil record companies: for every artist they exploited, there was an artist signing a contract. Are they just that stupid, do they feel forced by the uncertainty of their profession? Etc. But to just pretend content providers are sitting on something that ought to be free is bullshit. And I say th…

That was still my choice, and if you want to take that choice away from me you better start making photos and writing songs, because I'd be pouting.

s/choice/privilege/g

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#72
post #4

First you have to understand that not all of the content broadcast on the BBC is created by the BBC. They carry programs made by independent, limited, for-profit studios. They also regularly carry movies. All of which they put up on their iPlayer service. As an example, you can currently watch Madagascar, in full, for free on BBC iPlayer ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00gd77z/Madagascar/ ). While there is an…

My argument, and I sent this too them when they were doing a consultation a while ago, is that they shouldn't be buying content that they can't use for public service purposes. We have many good sources of movies in the UK, and many of them are "free" at the point of use (ie advert funded). Let them show Madagascar, and while they do that the BBC can run some other program. They should remove themselves from the cont…

Now every TV broadcast is digital, BBC3/4 are less 'ghetto' and more 'dumping grounds'

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most entertainment companies accept the current flash based solutions as sufficient. In this case they are trying to bring html5 to te same level as flash.

Exactly; closed source and patented.

I'm pretty sure something similar to Adobe Access can be implemented for html 5 without requiring us to close source browsers, or patent them. I fail to see why you think otherwise.

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The fact is, if it's trivial to clone data to the point that regular users can do it (Napster, etc), the business model for online rental vanishes." Yes, and if it is trivial to send photos without first developing them, the business model for Kodak will vanish! Why, if it were trivial for people to move a carriage from point A to point B, the business model for buggy whip makers might vanish! Why should we be conce…

I don't think it's a given that this model is inherently bad, obsolete, or evil. Unlike say, horses and buggies, it's not clear that there's a superior alternative here. In the case of video in particular, high quality content is still very expensive to produce. By removing the ability for movie / tv studios to make money from content, the likely outcome is we simply don't have big budget movies or high quality TV an…

"Unlike say, horses and buggies, it's not clear that there's a superior alternative here."

"Better" is subjective. I think a system is "better" when it ensures that people can access entertainment regardless of their income, all things being equal.

Could we monetize entertainment without sacrificing such things? Surely we can. We can have serials, for example, such that the next installment will not be released to anyone until enough money is raised. We can make movie theaters an experience worth paying for, rather than focusing on the movie itself.

This same sort of argument -- "we have no alternatives!" -- was made when automobiles rendered animal-based transportation obsolete. Pedestrians might be struck by cars! The speeds are too dangerous! They are so much noisier than horses! Yet in the end, the car was "better" than the horse, and now we face riots when gasoline becomes scarce.

I think the same is true of the Internet, when it comes to copyrights, photography, post offices, and so forth. When I was a child, photography meant film, and you had to drop film off somewhere to have your pictures developed. Then digital cameras came out, and for all the complaints about quality (remember when 1 megapixel was a big deal?), the film camera business fell apart. It was not just that we had digital cameras, it was that digital photographs could be transmitted to anyone with an Internet connection at no real cost -- whether you sent one photo, or a hundred photos.

Is it clear that digital is "better" than film? It all depends on your definition of "better." Film has more pixels at lower cost. Digital still won, and it wins even when the pictures are taken using cell phone cameras. Digital present society with a new set of problems to deal with, like the ease with which pornography can be made (middle school girls can be tricked into taking pornographic photos of themselves and sending those photos to men on the Internet, etc.), but nobody claimed it was a panacea; it just solves the problems people actually care about better than its predecessors.

The same argument applies to entertainment. People do not really care about quality; the continued popularity of camrips, and the continued popularity of low-end, unoriginal movie franchises should be proof enough. People want entertainment quickly, they want no restrictions on when and where they can watch it, and they want to be able to go into work the day after a show aired and laugh about it with their coworkers. My mother does not care about copyrights or DRM laws when she rips DVDs and copies the rip to her tablet -- she just wants her favorite shows on her most portable computer when Internet service is not available.

Copyright is obsolete because it encourages a system that makes all of the above expensive or difficult, and because there is another system that makes all of the above less expensive and less difficult. Cars get people from point A to point B faster and with less expense than horses; nobody cared about the noise, pollution, or danger. The same is true of copyrights: nobody really worries about the risks copyright lobbyists whine about when they download a torrent, because copyrights don't deliver what people really want nearly as well as the Internet does.

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The fact is, if it's trivial to clone data to the point that regular users can do it (Napster, etc), the business model for online rental vanishes." Yes, and if it is trivial to send photos without first developing them, the business model for Kodak will vanish! Why, if it were trivial for people to move a carriage from point A to point B, the business model for buggy whip makers might vanish! Why should we be conce…

I don't think it's a given that this model is inherently bad, obsolete, or evil. Unlike say, horses and buggies, it's not clear that there's a superior alternative here. In the case of video in particular, high quality content is still very expensive to produce. By removing the ability for movie / tv studios to make money from content, the likely outcome is we simply don't have big budget movies or high quality TV an…

>By removing the ability for movie / tv studios to make money from content, the likely outcome is we simply don't have big budget movies or high quality TV anymore.

I want to see some evidence that this is happening. All their movies are on The Pirate Bay and Hollywood is still making record profits. How is "making record profits" a problem deserving of countermeasures that are both ineffective and draconian?

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#76

We need a standard for DRM for Netflix, Hulu, etc. Otherwise they will forever use Flash or Silverlight. How can anyone argue against it? Content providers must protect their content from being stolen. Do you want to make an app and everyone steals it and doesn't pay for it? Probably not.

Do you want to make an app and everyone steals it and doesn't pay for it?

You can't steal an app, but you can copy and distribute my software all you want. Some of us actually work with business models that don't rely on legal privileges and broken "protection" schemes.

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The fact is, if it's trivial to clone data to the point that regular users can do it (Napster, etc), the business model for online rental vanishes." Yes, and if it is trivial to send photos without first developing them, the business model for Kodak will vanish! Why, if it were trivial for people to move a carriage from point A to point B, the business model for buggy whip makers might vanish! Why should we be conce…

Do you believe in unions then? Unions are pretty much the same thing. They inflate wages and force companies to pay workers a wage that would otherwise be much less. Unions have also prevented some jobs from being automated (IE: making them obsolete). "start talking about the possibility of completely upending the copyright system and replacing it with something that makes sense now that we have the Internet." If a c…

"If a company pours millions of dollars into something that many people enjoy, why shouldn't their works be protected?"

Kodak poured millions of dollars into the film development system. Why shouldn't they have their revenue stream protected too? Why not freeze the progress of technology to ensure that no business ever becomes obsolete?

We had entertainment before copyright. We will still have it afterwards.

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly; closed source and patented.

I'm pretty sure something similar to Adobe Access can be implemented for html 5 without requiring us to close source browsers, or patent them. I fail to see why you think otherwise.

Because I still have faith that the W3C wouldn't sell out to a closed solution owned by a single company.

We're talking about a web standard, not some company's broken software.

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is, if it's trivial to clone data to the point that regular users can do it (Napster, etc) It's already trivial for regular users to download pirated data, even if only experts can get around the DRM to copy and release it[0] in the first place. Case in point: House of Cards. Fully, freely and easily available to Joe The Pirate Next Door Schmoe, now that some nerd (TRIC? BTN? ASAP? Immerse?) has gotten aro…

The DRM is just one part of a strategy to make it just sufficiently unattractive to get a pirated version. Users can be worried about being caught, about their computer getting viruses, or just be put off by ugly websites and interfaces (Joe Schmoe isn't going to use get_iplayer at the command line). If they can make pirated versions look shady and illicit, lots of people will be willing to pay a bit for an official…

get_iplayer still works? I thought that it stopped working years ago!

Re: BBC demands DRM for HTML5

#80
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if media companies think this sort of solution is necessary, we should meet them half-way." Or we could not meet them half-way and remind them that they do not own the web and that their business model is as out of date as Kodak. Why should we accept any more attacks on the freedom and openness of the web or the greater Internet? This companies are the ones who need to change: they need to adapt their businesses to…

> they need to adapt their businesses to the realities of this century's technology. You say this like it's immensely easy. So say you're head of HBO's original programming dept. It can cost over 100 million dollars to produce one season of a quality show. You can only release it on a medium that allows it to be continuously and freely distributed. How do you make money? Ads and Product placement is about it. You rea…

"you're a f*ing lunatic if you think you can make money through any other method"

[citation needed]

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