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Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

money.cnn.com

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Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#81

Post by admiralpumpkin »

danielweber wrote: post #61
peeters wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the author has explicitly confirmed that he had to do 1-2 laps of the parking lot to find the unilluminated charging station in the dark. While that might qualify as "driving in circles", it did not appear to be intentional, and is a valid issue that one might have.

Musk probably looks on the product as his baby, and if you insult my baby, I won't be totally rational in my response. Really, he shouldn't have mentioned that 0.6 miles at all. If 0.6 miles makes the difference in how a car performs, just drop it. But since Musk thinks this guy was insulting his baby, the 0.6 miles (in _circles_!) looks sinister to him.

I agree with you regarding Elon's motivation, but I think Elon's reason for talking about the circling 0.6 miles wasn't to claim that it was a meaningful distance/fuel issue, but rather that it was evidence of Broder's true motivation.

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#82

Post by iyulaev »

jws wrote: post #63
NamTaf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it presently does. In fact, I believe that's the reason why the battery charge level dropped overnight in Musk's presentation of data and why, according to some folk, plugging it in to a normal power socket isn't enough to actually charge it as the battery pack draws more power than the socket can supply simply keeping the thing warm. Such a process will of course drain the battery which still achieves the…

I'm sitting in front of a 1500 watt radiant heater, it seems implausible that 1500 watts isn't enough power to keep a car sized battery pack in an enclosed space warmed to operating temperature. For an idea what 1500 watts will do, I keep a 400 square foot room with only an R8 (US) ceiling and unheated space below at a 20°F differential to outside with this heater. It can't keep up when it gets too cold out, but my r…

I think the number I heard for heating the battery was 1.3kW. The model S battery is long and flat and hence has lots of exposed surface to lose heat. Also, it was in the teens when the original reporter left his car outside. So, is plausable.

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#83

Post by ubercore »

TylerE wrote: post #53
analog wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diesel also needs special considerations in colder weather (the fuel becomes too viscous at lower temperatures). Just a different set of problems to petrol, not a dealbreaker imo.

Not really, any more. The fuel is winterized at point of purchase, so fuel geling is rather unlikely these days (and if it does, there are additives that will un-gel it. Modern glow plugs are also much better. In my VW TDI, at 10F the glow plug cycle is only about 3 seconds, and then it fires right up. No glow plugs need at all above 35F.

Same for our 2011 TDI. Never had to worry about fuel or engine issues, even in quite cold weather (not arctic, but we live in RI, so there are some cold winter nights to contend with).

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#84

Post by makomk »

AlexeiSadeski wrote: post #74
brudgers wrote: post #48

Every time someone reads this, a kitten gets run over: "Instead, I found myself maneuvering around slower cars. Now, I normally spend most of my time on the New Jersey Turnpike out in the left lane going at least 10 or 15 miles an hour faster than I was in the Model S. But sitting in the middle lane, I was keeping up with traffic. I certainly didn't feel out of place -- except for the fact that I wasn't burning any g…

>How Musk can act incredulous over assertions that the Model S is impractical for US intercity travel while acknowleding one hour fuelings every three hours is beyond me. Bingo.

One and a half hours if you actually charge to 100% rather than 90% - which CNN presumably did since their charging stops lasted that long. (And that's with top-of-the-range Superchargers; standard 240V dedicated car chargers are basically useless for long trips unless you're planning to stop and leave the car charging overnight.)

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#85

Post by ghurlman »

sukuriant wrote: post #75
brudgers wrote: post #48

Every time someone reads this, a kitten gets run over: "Instead, I found myself maneuvering around slower cars. Now, I normally spend most of my time on the New Jersey Turnpike out in the left lane going at least 10 or 15 miles an hour faster than I was in the Model S. But sitting in the middle lane, I was keeping up with traffic. I certainly didn't feel out of place -- except for the fact that I wasn't burning any g…

He was already going 60-65. He just admitted to going 70-80 on the freeway; and, given the other cars, the speed limit is probably 60. I love speed as much as the next guy; but this was a review that, as far as I could gather, was CNN's version of peer reviewing the Time's article... and finding it wanting. A normal person isn't taking their car to the track. TopGear already did that test on an even more suited car.…

The speed limit on the NJ Turnpike is largely 65, but traveling at 70 - 80mph on the turnpike is normal, often the speed to just keep up with traffic, depending on the day/where you are on the road.

Wanting to go 80 on the NJT isn't "taking it to the track", it's "driving from A to B".

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#86

Post by doktrin »

bruceboughton wrote: post #30
doktrin wrote: post #22

The constant back and forth on this issue (whether or not this luxury car can in fact drive further than the supermarket) feels absurd. I have to honestly say the Model S is very, very low on my list of cars-I-wish-I-had. It screams conspicuous and vapid consumption to the nth degree.

>> It screams conspicuous and vapid consumption to the nth degree. Unlike, say, gas-guzzling SUVs.

Gas-guzzling SUVs can serve a legitimate purpose justifying their price point. Luxury electric cars don't, neither from a conservation, ecological or (apparently) practical standpoint.

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#87

Post by j-g-faustus »

willvarfar wrote: post #28
potatolicious wrote: post #6

Not really a surprise - I don't think there was really any doubt about the performance of the Tesla in normal weather. The NYC area right now is well above freezing, approaching +10C in the daytime, nowhere near the deep freeze that occurred during the NYT drive. This still doesn't put to rest the expected (but somehow controversial) concerns about lithium battery performance in cold weather. This concern IMO needs t…

Teslas are big sellers in Norway and Switzerland, yet (and I travel there often and even looked in Zurich showrooms) I don't hear them concerned.

Number of Teslas registered in Norway: 15 in 2010, 48 in 2011, so they sold 33 Teslas in 2011.

Source: Statistics Norway[1], the official state agency for everything statistics.

Compared to say ~300,000 registered Toyotas (2011), I guess it depends on how you define "big" :)

But we do have a somewhat sizeable enthusiast "electric car" community. We deal with the cold by plugging in whenever possible, and most electric cars are used only for local transport.

There's apparently two Tesla S in Norway at the moment. It has generated interest here as well, and we have articles like "How to charge the Tesla Model S" [2] on a site that translates to "charging-stations.no",

[1] http://statbank.ssb.no/statistikkbanken/Default_FR.asp?PXSid...

[2] http://www.ladestasjoner.no/nyheter/75-hvordan-kan-tesla-mod...

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#88

Post by TylerE »

jws wrote: post #77
TylerE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, for every hour of operation of the heater, you're using up about 1.5% of the battery capacity.

I'm rather thinking of being plugged in. 1500 watts is about all you can plan on drawing without blowing a breaker. The context, if I understood correctly, was that plugging in to a 120v household outlet was a net loss because 1500 watts was insufficient to warm the batteries to charging temperature and that presumably some numbskull in Tesla's software group decided to run the heaters even if it resulted in a net lo…

If you're plugged in, just charge the battery.

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#89

Post by bconway »

millerc wrote: post #72
potatolicious wrote: post #6

Not really a surprise - I don't think there was really any doubt about the performance of the Tesla in normal weather. The NYC area right now is well above freezing, approaching +10C in the daytime, nowhere near the deep freeze that occurred during the NYT drive. This still doesn't put to rest the expected (but somehow controversial) concerns about lithium battery performance in cold weather. This concern IMO needs t…

That whole debate is becoming utterly ridiculous. Either it works as Tesla Motors says, or it doesn't. If it's so hard to get cold temperatures in the States, just send one unit up here a few miles North to Canada, we'll be back in the -20C during the week.

Alaska is a popular place for cold weather testing among many manufacturers. Subaru, in particular, beats the crap out of their cars for extended time periods in sub-zero temperatures.

Re: Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S

#90

Post by to3m »

ubercore wrote: post #83
TylerE wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, any more. The fuel is winterized at point of purchase, so fuel geling is rather unlikely these days (and if it does, there are additives that will un-gel it. Modern glow plugs are also much better. In my VW TDI, at 10F the glow plug cycle is only about 3 seconds, and then it fires right up. No glow plugs need at all above 35F.

Same for our 2011 TDI. Never had to worry about fuel or engine issues, even in quite cold weather (not arctic, but we live in RI, so there are some cold winter nights to contend with).

Regarding the fuel, there are some details, along with some discussions of operating temperature, in the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel. The temperature ranges suggest that you're unlikely to have serious issues with your diesel car, if you buy fuel appropriate for the season. The inconvenience factor of owning a diesel car compared to a petrol one is pretty minimal, as far as the sort of cold weather that most people who might consider buying a car (as opposed to something with tracks, skis, or 4' tyres) will generally encounter.
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