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Website Impounded

fitnesssf.com

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Re: Website Impounded

#141

Post by johnpowell »

greaterweb wrote: post #39

I do empathize with this guys position but he is way out of line here. There is an implied risk in doing business, be it freelance or trough a traditional business. Your first line of defense would be a solid contract and a fairly decent deposit. If you lead with a strong reputation clients will have no problem making the investment with you. If you lack the experience and reputation, maybe you shouldn't be getting i…

Well, the client did go through the trouble of deleting their facebook pages that the site linked to.

So they did have a voice but took a knife to their own larynx instead of telling their side of the story.

Re: Website Impounded

#142

Post by pseingatl »

This is a great idea. Those who write, "go to small claims court" don't know what they're talking about. In small claims you may win your case, but that does not mean you can collect your money. Collection efforts must then commence; working from another country makes collection impractical. More importantly, this matter points out that a web site is a valuable asset which can be levied or seized for failure to pay a debt generally. So if I buy a car, sue the dealer in small claims court and win, I can seize the dealer's web site and sell it (or hold it) as compensation. A world of possibilities.

Re: Website Impounded

#143

Post by pseingatl »

gnu8 wrote: post #123
fencepost wrote: post #18

My suspicion is that this is being done because it's international. If Fitness SF is as I suspect in San Francisco while the developer is in Europe, collections will be a real headache. Sue? Sure, probably where you are, probably win. Then collect from the European presence of a California fitness club. I see a potential disconnect. Sue in California? How much is THAT going to cost someone based in Europe? And really…

If only there was some sort of a company that could try to collect on unpaid bills in exchange for a fee...

They exist and are called "law firms."

Re: Website Impounded

#144

Post by cthackers »

tedunangst wrote: post #99
tzs wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take your car to the shop and can't pay for the work to be done, they put a mechanic's lien on it, and impound the car until the work is paid for. This is no different from that method, which is totally legal. The former is legal because it is specifically authorized by law. For example, here in Washington mechanic's liens are specifically authorized and regulated in the Revised Code of Washington chapter 60…

Who owns the website? If I asked somebody to do a little work and fix up my existing website, I wouldn't expect them to hold it hostage in a billing dispute. But if they built the whole thing, I don't think I'm entitled to any of it until I pay.

I agree. The worst he should have done: bring the website to the state where it was before he replaced it with his website. Not hold hostage the hosting/domain which I'm sure the client didn't bought from him and if they did, at least the domain name was paid for. So route that into the void if you host it.

Re: Website Impounded

#145

Post by chris_wot »

I applaud them or this. This is exactly what happened to me, only worse. I worked day and night, at times driving for 4 hours to the ACT to get to client sites. For absolutely nothing. I didn't get paid. There was no point pursuing it in the courts, and frankly I don't want to live a bitter life.

But these people are scum. Good on them for showing them up.

Re: Website Impounded

#146

Post by dhimes »

joshcrews wrote: post #92
dhimes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't work for me as a client: I've dealt wit scummy freelancers, too. You could consider going through an agency- one that offers the ability to (1) escrow money, (2) keep a written record of agreements, and (3) provide mediation. There are costs to this, but, at least until you trust each other, they may be the way to go.

I have everyone prepay me for Rails development. I think the reason it's not an issue is that they've worked with bad freelancers, and people that drop the ball, flake out, stop answering emails. They don't want that so bad that they will prepay me because they believe I'm not going to do that to them, they really want me to do their project, and so prepayment is a non-issue. Edit: I haven't asked for $30,000 in adva…

OK- a deposit I fully agree with. But when I have prepaid (or paid the last installment before receiving the final code) I've been burned. In fact, a freelancer owes me some code as we speak that I will never see- but I don't really care because, surprise surprise, his code sucks too and I've someone else re-doing it.

In fact, maybe that's a better bellweather: look at samples of code. The more professional it looks, the more professional I can expect the interaction to be. Seems reasonable- what do you think?

Re: Website Impounded

#147

Post by JoelMarsh »

tedunangst wrote: post #99
tzs wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take your car to the shop and can't pay for the work to be done, they put a mechanic's lien on it, and impound the car until the work is paid for. This is no different from that method, which is totally legal. The former is legal because it is specifically authorized by law. For example, here in Washington mechanic's liens are specifically authorized and regulated in the Revised Code of Washington chapter 60…

Who owns the website? If I asked somebody to do a little work and fix up my existing website, I wouldn't expect them to hold it hostage in a billing dispute. But if they built the whole thing, I don't think I'm entitled to any of it until I pay.

Typically - and I am purposely avoiding too fine a point on this - the copyright remains with the creator until payment occurs. Otherwise no transfer of rights has occurred.

Re: Website Impounded

#148

Post by dhimes »

timjahn wrote: post #97
dhimes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't work for me as a client: I've dealt wit scummy freelancers, too. You could consider going through an agency- one that offers the ability to (1) escrow money, (2) keep a written record of agreements, and (3) provide mediation. There are costs to this, but, at least until you trust each other, they may be the way to go.

We actually do all 3 of these things at matchist ( http://matchist.com/talent ). Not because we only deal with scummy clients or developers, but because it makes both sides feel comfortable and then they can simply concentrate on the project at hand, instead of worrying about somebody running off with the money.

I might use your site then. I've used vworker (but dropped them when they sold to freelancer) and found a quality guy there. I'm using elancer now with mixed results. I don't think the guy I had trouble with was scummy, just not very good (but thinks he is) and unprofessional in his manner. I paid him in full- even sent him a bonus in the middle when I realized the problem was harder than I anticipated, but never got anything usable from him.

Re: Website Impounded

#149

Post by dayyan »

I feel unless you are an expert in law, debating the legality of this pointless.

What I am interested in is what the site used to look like. Anyone got screenshots or a cache link?

Re: Website Impounded

#150

Post by timjahn »

dhimes wrote: post #148
timjahn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually do all 3 of these things at matchist ( http://matchist.com/talent ). Not because we only deal with scummy clients or developers, but because it makes both sides feel comfortable and then they can simply concentrate on the project at hand, instead of worrying about somebody running off with the money.

I might use your site then. I've used vworker (but dropped them when they sold to freelancer) and found a quality guy there. I'm using elancer now with mixed results. I don't think the guy I had trouble with was scummy , just not very good (but thinks he is) and unprofessional in his manner. I paid him in full- even sent him a bonus in the middle when I realized the problem was harder than I anticipated, but never go…

We're big on having only professional mannered, well communicating talent.
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