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That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

wheels.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#231

Post by _pmf_ »

onemorepassword wrote: post #226
andrewfelix wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't characterise it as lying. Broder constructed a narrative around his experience, and got a couple of the details wrong.

This is the expectation mismatch between journalism and its dwindling audience: the general public doesn't expect journalists to "construct a narrative". Most people expect journalism to be about the cold hard facts, possibly biased in it's tone and interpretation, but not altering the facts in favor of a narrative. Manipulating quotes is another journalistic favorite, because hey, just because it's between quotation…

> the general public doesn't expect journalists to "construct a narrative"

That's right, they don't expect it. They are merely disappointed if they don't.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#232

Post by mkhpalm »

I think both Musk and NTY have errors in their stories. But I particularly despise the way Musk went about responding to the article. If he's right, just post the raw data with a summary of Tesla's findings for the readers to decide. I much prefer a detailed and professional retort over an "emo" knee-jerk berating. And if you can't do that, just post the parts Tesla doesn't think add up minus the highly pointed commentary.

But thats me... I find you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#233

Post by Charlesmigli »

ANH wrote: post #113

My summary: 1) We need more EV infrastructure, a point that seems to be getting lost and that I think should have been the thesis of the original article. 2) Broder was irresponsible for not taking seriously enough what the car was telling him and trusting too much the judgment of people 3,000 miles away. 3) Musk is on the defensive and perhaps overreacting because he feels he's doing good in the world and has produc…

Awesome summary! You should love http://tldr.io :)

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#234

Post by gillianseed »

andrewfelix wrote: post #218
wtallis wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that it's not "stacking the deck" for Broder to exaggerate for the sake of a better narrative, but that Musk should have given us just the facts. That's absolutely bullshit. If you think it's okay for Broder to editorialize, then at the very least Musk should be allowed to argue against it. After all, Broder's supposed to be a journalist , held to higher standards than Top Gear.

As mentioned a lot of journalists will attempt to create a narrative. They need to capture the readers interest with a compelling read. If all Broder did was compile a list of facts, he wouldn't be writing for the NYT. Musk is not in that position. He's the CEO of a company, not a writer. I think his argument would have had more impact had he not implied that Broder had a secret agenda.

If he ignores/distorts the facts in order to 'create a narrative' then he is not reporting, he is writing fiction.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#235

Post by xuki »

gus_massa wrote: post #20
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Two bits are completely non-sensical to me, is there any battery technician or otherwise knowledgeable person that can indicate in what conditions this makes any sense? > Beginning early in the morning of my second day with the car, after the projected range had dropped precipitously while parked overnight, I spoke numerous times with Christina Ra, Tesla’s spokeswoman at the time, and Ted Merendino, a Tesla product p…

Next time a journalist does a drive test, Musk should record all the telephonic conversations.

Depend on where you live it might be illegal to do so.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#236

Post by tunesmith »

manacit wrote: post #169
tunesmith wrote: post #162

I put a graph together showing all the points/counterpoints and here's what I'm left with. - not charging past 90% at the 1st station is defensible. Especially if Tesla warns it will shorten the battery's life. - It'd be better if Tesla's software took temperature into account when estimating mileage range. - Broder is being ridiculous about the cruise control and his speed estimates, and the temperature. He has part…

Most of this analysis is spot on in my opinion - the one area I disagree with you in is the portion where he allegedly drove in circles. The graph Tesla shows is misleading and completely blown out of proportion. 0.6 miles is not very far to travel, especially when 0.2 miles are accounted for by the offramp. A drive once around an unfamiliar parking lot in the dark, looking for a small charging station can easily acc…

I generally agree with you, maybe I phrased it badly.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#237

Post by Ntrails »

DeepDuh wrote: post #179
niggler wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If the support person gave different advice, he was setting himself and his company for the mess up, and the mess up ensued." This is why we need the call logs. And I fully suspect Tesla records them, so the fact that it wasn't released may suggest that Broder's account was indeed correct

While the whole discussion makes me skeptical of both Broder and Tesla's customer service, I'd like to add here that Tesla most probably would need permission to do that. Even releasing GPS data is already a questionable move - IANAL, but I believe in Europe this would be pretty much unthinkable, except if he gave explicit permission on paper first (general agreement terms probably wouldn't be enough, because of the…

If he was directly calling a person at Tesla it would be unlikely to be recorded. If he went through the normal customer support number - you'd expect it to have been recorded after the "This call may be recorded for training purposes etc" intro

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#238

Post by [deleted] »

andrewfelix wrote: post #227
onemorepassword wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the expectation mismatch between journalism and its dwindling audience: the general public doesn't expect journalists to "construct a narrative". Most people expect journalism to be about the cold hard facts, possibly biased in it's tone and interpretation, but not altering the facts in favor of a narrative. Manipulating quotes is another journalistic favorite, because hey, just because it's between quotation…

You make very good points. But I think to be fair to Broder who operates within the context that he does, he was not out of line. I do agree that the nature of news is changing as are readers expectations.

[deleted]

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#239

Post by [deleted] »

gillianseed wrote: post #234
andrewfelix wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned a lot of journalists will attempt to create a narrative. They need to capture the readers interest with a compelling read. If all Broder did was compile a list of facts, he wouldn't be writing for the NYT. Musk is not in that position. He's the CEO of a company, not a writer. I think his argument would have had more impact had he not implied that Broder had a secret agenda.

If he ignores/distorts the facts in order to 'create a narrative' then he is not reporting, he is writing fiction.

[deleted]

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#240

Post by marvin »

kdsudac wrote: post #121
jimmyyoung wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musks blog post is meant to be technical. It's not directly towards the average Tesla customer. The average customer is probably not going to be following this. Thousands of newspaper are going to write an article everything that happens. They will make it more reader-friendly. Repeat: It is not Musks' intent for customer to read his blog.

"Thousands of newspaper are going to write an article everything that happens." Thousands of newspapers writing about this is exactly what Musk shouldn't want! Thanks for making my argument for me. :)

But they're doing that regardless. Case in point: My local paper in Norway had a big headline two days ago: "Super-car doesn't work in the cold" in response to the original NYT article. They took it down straight away when Musk made his tweets.
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