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Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#211

Post by gurkendoktor »

Ensorceled wrote: post #177
bpatrianakos wrote: post #44

I have to disagree even as someone relying on Disqus in a few different ways. First off, they did provide notice. I received an email about this at all the addresses I have an account under. Maybe the the author didn't and that sucks but this seems like an edge case and he is one of the exceptions, not the rule. Second, you can turn this feature off which brings me to my next point. Even if they do decide to change t…

> First off, they did provide notice. I have two blogs using Disqus and, as the admin, I did not receive notifications for either one, so, they did not provide notice to everybody.

I also cannot remember getting any email from disqus in the last months. Maybe because my blog is in hiatus (like any good blog ;)).

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#212

Post by mpyne »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #207
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can stop using their service if you dont like it. I just did. > I dont understand this sense of entitlement regarding free services. This free service just made it look as if I endorse a bunch of companies and decided to change my site from non-commercial to commercial. That's my prerogative. > And it is not like disqus did not warn its users , they did. Dont like it ? use something else. They may have warned,…

> I just did. Good on you. The only way these companies will figure out that this sort of model sucks is if they lose users/money.

Well in this case it would seem that they lost a user and cut their burn rate at the same time. I'm not sure Disqus would see this as a net loss.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#213

Post by anthonyb »

res0nat0r wrote: post #175
Turing_Machine wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. To take it to a somewhat ridiculous extreme, what about something like this? "I just found out that this company was infecting all their users with bubonic plague." "Stop complaining. It was free!"

That comparison is ridiculous. It's a free service, either click two buttons to revert it to the previous state without ads, or delete your account. Move on with your life and stop the entitled whining.

jaquesm's opinion was given to you for free, what are you complaining about? If you don't like it, don't read it...

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#214

Post by pifflesnort »

Zak wrote: post #201
pifflesnort wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should have thought of this before using a completely free "SaaS" offering? Perhaps you'll think of this next time.

You seem to be focused on what Disqus has the right to do, while jacquesm is talking about user expectations and the consequences of violating them. I'm inclined to agree with him that displaying ads on the user's site without explicit opt-in is a major faux pas with the potential to destroy a company's reputation permanently.

I don't think what Disqus did was in good taste, but I do think that it's foolish to expect otherwise from a free SaaS provider.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#215

Post by detst »

res0nat0r wrote: post #175
Turing_Machine wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. To take it to a somewhat ridiculous extreme, what about something like this? "I just found out that this company was infecting all their users with bubonic plague." "Stop complaining. It was free!"

That comparison is ridiculous. It's a free service, either click two buttons to revert it to the previous state without ads, or delete your account. Move on with your life and stop the entitled whining.

This is what Turing_Machine is doing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Offering something free doesn't make one immune to criticism and criticizing isn't entitled whining. This is fair criticism.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#216

Post by rapind »

danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

Is it safe to assume that if I'm a paying customer I don't have to worry about ads / promoted discovery showing up on my site, or is it on (opt-out) by default?

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#217

Post by gbog »

danielha wrote: post #148
jacquesm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me when I enabled that setting, and explain why you make it seem as if I recommend certain products and services. On another note do you realize that you make it seem as if I endorse stealth advertising? Please quit the marketing speak, it makes me itchy. And I have opted out, as the blog post details.

What marketing speak? This is how I talk and I'm an awful marketer.

Bad faith won't help here. Let's call a cat a cat and advertisement advertisement.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#218

Post by gbog »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
camus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can stop using their service if you dont like it. I dont understand this sense of entitlement regarding free services. And it is not like disqus did not warn its users , they did. Dont like it ? use something else. > To see that happen without my explicit consent is something that is enough to turn me off from that particular service provider because I can apparently not trust them with the responsibility of not…

> you can stop using their service if you dont like it. I just did. > I dont understand this sense of entitlement regarding free services. This free service just made it look as if I endorse a bunch of companies and decided to change my site from non-commercial to commercial. That's my prerogative. > And it is not like disqus did not warn its users , they did. Dont like it ? use something else. They may have warned,…

Hi Jacques, completely support. I see a handle of people trying to destabilize you and you defend your position so well that I didn't find anything to add, except that I fully support your point, and I am sure many more do.

This should be called disqusgate and I'd really expect to hear Fred Wilson on it, if not done yet.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#219

Post by btilly »

danielha wrote: post #154
callahad wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a euphemism, and it feels strange to have euphemisms for your standard business practices. Note that the screenshot in Jacques' post shows that he's done a search for "advertising" on his page. None of the text matched. Labeling ads as "Recommended Content" seems quite dishonest. Edit / Aside: I do generally hold Disqus in high esteem, and I sincerely appreciate your willingness to dive into this discussion. I b…

Got it. If the question is about how clear it is to users, then yes that's important and something that we've adjusted along the way. We're going to continue making changes as we learn from feedback.

Let's break this down.

Got it.

You've learned a lesson, but what lesson did you learn?

If the question is about how clear it is to users, then yes that's important and something that we've adjusted along the way.

You've indicated that how clear it is to users is important, but you haven't indicated whether your preference is that it be clear or unclear to users.

Your actions right now suggest that you think it is important to not be clear. If you want to be clear, you should start using the widely understood and honest word "advertising" instead of a euphemism of your own making.

We're going to continue making changes as we learn from feedback.

Again you don't suggest directionality to your changes.

Will they be changes that we like? For example will you, as responsible marketers should, make this opt-in instead of opt-out? It is fine to make people choose between opting in or paying a modest fee or losing their comment feature. It is fine to have the "you need to make a decision" show up in bold for the admin (and for admin only) when they are on the page. But opt-out with emails that are likely to go to spam informing people of this in opaque language is not fine.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#220

Post by mikecane »

thedufer wrote: post #200
danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

I think the most concerning part of this is hiding it from site owners when they're logged in. This feels like an admission that what you're doing is wrong, and that it needs to be hidden from the people who can turn it off. How did you come to that particular decision?

>>>I think the most concerning part of this is hiding it from site owners when they're logged in.

I use the free WordPress.com. They don't show me the ads they place on my site if I'm logged in.

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