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Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#71

Post by ryanhuff »

omni wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never expected to see that make the jump from 'end user of a service' (say twitter, facebook, google) to 'end user of a plug-in' or SAAS product. Silly me, I guess I should have seen it coming.

You don't think Disqus is offering a service? Do you know what the last S in SaaS stands for? This comment makes no sense.

@jacquesm, in the case of a twitter button, or FB like button, those can usually be removed without significant impact to the overall user experience. A Disqus commenting engine is not as easily removed/replaced, especially given the potential loss of previously generated content. I guess it comes down whether the third party service is a core feature of your site/product.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#72

Post by llimllib »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #44

I have to disagree even as someone relying on Disqus in a few different ways. First off, they did provide notice. I received an email about this at all the addresses I have an account under. Maybe the the author didn't and that sucks but this seems like an edge case and he is one of the exceptions, not the rule. Second, you can turn this feature off which brings me to my next point. Even if they do decide to change t…

> they did provide notice

I can confirm they contact me as well. On 12/11/12, they sent me an email titled "Growing with Disqus". However,

1) Gmail auto-labeled it as "Promotions", so I didn't read it. Not disqus' fault, just saying.

2) The text is shady; never does it mention specifically that ads will be placed on your site, but dances around the issue before finally saying "if you'd rather not try this feature, you can always turn it off". I likely would not have understood that they were putting ads on my site even if I had given the email a quick read. The subject line sure doesn't help.

I don't mean that I'm outraged or surprised. Just confirming that I received the same email and examining it a bit.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#73

Post by jessaustin »

WA wrote: post #26
k3n wrote: post #8

I have an aversion to hosting 3rd-party functionality on my sites for this very reason. They do not work for you, they do not answer to you, and their motives are usually quite different than yours. Thus, don't be surprised when they act to satisfy those motives in ways that you may not entirely agree with.

Same here. I'd never include any third party JavaScript application that messes with my website.

Not even Google Analytics? It seems like everybody is using that stuff.

Incidentally, I agree with you.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#74

Post by abraxasz »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #44

I have to disagree even as someone relying on Disqus in a few different ways. First off, they did provide notice. I received an email about this at all the addresses I have an account under. Maybe the the author didn't and that sucks but this seems like an edge case and he is one of the exceptions, not the rule. Second, you can turn this feature off which brings me to my next point. Even if they do decide to change t…

I think the main problem is this pervasive habit (not talking only about disqus here) of making controversial modifications (because hey, they must know that a significant part of their users won't like it) and making them the default. I don't think that the OP would have minded so much if the feature was turned off by default. It's like social networks changing their privacy options, and making everything public by default.. but with the option to revert to normal when/if you realize what changed.

As for the second point, the fact that the ad links are similar to all others: that really IS sneaky, however you look at it.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#75

Post by [deleted] »

rscale wrote: post #38
jrs235 wrote: post #10

"If you aren't paying for the product/service then you are the product/service being sold." EDIT: Wow. Why the downvotes? Do people still not understand this saying? I understand it hurts if/when you get burned but it shouldn't come as a surprise when free services change to something less desirable to monetize their business models. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon offer paid "premium" accounts that don't show a…

That quote is often wrong. For example, there are "freemium" business models where the users are segmented by usage level, or by need of additional features. In those models, the "free" users aren't being sold, they're just potential customers and advocates. Further, this sort of breach of trust isn't limited to free services. There are paid services that start selling advertisements as well.

[deleted]

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#76

Post by FooBarWidget »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
danso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, but what exactly did you think the arrangement between you and Disqus was? Their service obviously saves bloggers a lot of hassle, and it can't be free to maintain? I don't mean to say that this justifies this perceived wrong, but it certainly justifies, from their standpoint, to think: "If you're going to use our service, for free, you should at least read our emails (and not filter them to th…

Whatever it was that I thought I signed up for, I explicitly did not sign up for an advertising tag, especially not a stealthy one, and on top of that not one that looks like an active endorsement on my part.

You agreed to their terms and conditions upon sign up. It says:

"We may, without prior notice, change the Service;"

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#77

Post by [deleted] »

rscale wrote: post #38
jrs235 wrote: post #10

"If you aren't paying for the product/service then you are the product/service being sold." EDIT: Wow. Why the downvotes? Do people still not understand this saying? I understand it hurts if/when you get burned but it shouldn't come as a surprise when free services change to something less desirable to monetize their business models. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon offer paid "premium" accounts that don't show a…

That quote is often wrong. For example, there are "freemium" business models where the users are segmented by usage level, or by need of additional features. In those models, the "free" users aren't being sold, they're just potential customers and advocates. Further, this sort of breach of trust isn't limited to free services. There are paid services that start selling advertisements as well.

[deleted]

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#78

Post by boundlessdreamz »

I never got an email as well. Also looking at settings they have also started modifying your links to add affiliate ids. http://help.disqus.com/customer/portal/articles/851667-affil...

Both these were turned on by default. Terrible move. I understand that they have to monetize but turning these on by default is not cool.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#79

Post by tarr11 »

eCa wrote: post #48
tarr11 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling is that the HN community tends to try and focus on unique and specific details. This quote has become a cliche and doesn't add that much to the conversation.

Like many cliches it is proving itself as being true again and again. So one reason that it (maybe) doesn't add much is that everyone knows it is tue, but doesn't want to think about it.

Logically, if the converse is false, then the original statement is false, correct?

"If you are the customer, then you are not the product."

This is false (many contradictory examples show that you can be both customer and product), and so the original quote itself is false.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#80

Post by camus »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
bpatrianakos wrote: post #44

I have to disagree even as someone relying on Disqus in a few different ways. First off, they did provide notice. I received an email about this at all the addresses I have an account under. Maybe the the author didn't and that sucks but this seems like an edge case and he is one of the exceptions, not the rule. Second, you can turn this feature off which brings me to my next point. Even if they do decide to change t…

How would you feel if twitter decided to include (for your benefit, of course) a bunch of advertising next to their button after sending you an email about it and defaulting to 'on'. Would that be ok for you or would you feel that that was not what you signed up for when you decided to embed their button tag? I signed up for a 'comment tag', not for an 'advertising tag'. There is a world of a difference between those…

you can stop using their service if you dont like it.

I dont understand this sense of entitlement regarding free services.

And it is not like disqus did not warn its users , they did. Dont like it ? use something else.

> To see that happen without my explicit consent is something that is enough to turn me off from that particular service provider because I can apparently not trust them with the responsibility of not altering our relationship in a material way relative to the terms of service of the moment when I signed up for their service.

then stop using that service , what's the big deal ? did you pay for it ? no. So there is no binding contract between them and you.

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