Stupid, Stupid xBox • Hacker News Board

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#181

Post by InclinedPlane » Thu, Feb 14, 2013, 2:12 AM UTC

pandaman wrote: post #129

InclinedPlane wrote: post #104

I see a couple comments here, including the highest voted top level comment, questioning how the xbox can be "crushing" their competition given that a straightforward reading of console sales indicates things aren't so cut and dried. However, the xbox is crushing its competition, in several ways, and let me explain why a naive reading of unit sales is misleading. Many consoles sell at a loss, especially initially, or…

I am just curious - where are you getting the console costs from? From what I know this information is highly sensitive and even most insiders don't have an access. Also, what scale do you use to compare costs? From the fact that you call Kinect (sold ~18M [1]) "one of the most popular consumer electronic devices in history" and Move (sold ~15M[2]) "has not taken off" it appears that either you are using some kind of…

The figures for the PS3 are well known. And the Wii/Wii-U's profitability per unit is also well known and publicly admitted. With any console you can generally just look at the parts list and compare costs to retail.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#182

Post by pandaman » Thu, Feb 14, 2013, 5:48 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #181

pandaman wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just curious - where are you getting the console costs from? From what I know this information is highly sensitive and even most insiders don't have an access. Also, what scale do you use to compare costs? From the fact that you call Kinect (sold ~18M [1]) "one of the most popular consumer electronic devices in history" and Move (sold ~15M[2]) "has not taken off" it appears that either you are using some kind of…

The figures for the PS3 are well known. And the Wii/Wii-U's profitability per unit is also well known and publicly admitted. With any console you can generally just look at the parts list and compare costs to retail.

>The figures for the PS3 are well known.

From what source?

>And the Wii/Wii-U's profitability per unit is also well known and publicly admitted.

Really?

And Xbox, I figure, is also "well known"?

>With any console you can generally just look at the parts list and compare costs to retail.

True, if you know the costs of parts you can do this.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#183

Post by InclinedPlane » Thu, Feb 14, 2013, 11:03 AM UTC

natbro wrote: post #174

Arjuna wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this insightful commentary. I wanted to add that there is a general vibe in this overall thread (not your comment - the vibe that you have responded to) that Microsoft essentially muscled their way into the console industry and achieved market dominance, largely because of their financial abilities. Certainly, their financial abilities allowed them to shoulder the losses on hardware, but as you have poi…

Well put, and although I may be somewhat biased, I agree -- financial muscle only gave us the ability to get on the field, it doesn't help you win or have a long-term strategy. The original hardware profile (PC-like so tools were available) and including a HDD was what allowed us to get game developers on-board quickly. Including the HDD and the NIC were also the bets, and as I tried to say in my original post, these…

I think pursuing exclusive titles is a bit of a wild goose chase. They're necessary more to prop up a struggling console than to further benefit an already successful one. If the system is doing well then you don't have to convince anyone to target it. Especially in today's world where the big game engines target multiple platforms so easily, deciding to target only one is just leaving money on the table, even if your studio has strong preferences towards a specific console. Generally the only way to ensure an exclusive is to buy or pay off a game studio, but that can be self-defeating because that money offsets the increased game revenue.

But if you're relying on your console being a solid default favorite platform for games because it makes financial sense there's nothing wrong with that. It may not be as satisfying a "win" as exclusivity, but it's precisely the sort of win that you want. And it should still be flattering that developers are targeting your console merely because they think it's a good system rather than out of any backroom dealings.

Of course, you can change the equation with custom hardware, as the Kinect has done, and that has generated a few decent exclusive titles. We'll see what MS does with the hardware with the next console rev, maybe they'll be able to deliver more on the promise of the hardware and bring more major developer attention than it's gotten so far.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#184

Post by veidr » Thu, Feb 14, 2013, 11:52 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #183

natbro wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put, and although I may be somewhat biased, I agree -- financial muscle only gave us the ability to get on the field, it doesn't help you win or have a long-term strategy. The original hardware profile (PC-like so tools were available) and including a HDD was what allowed us to get game developers on-board quickly. Including the HDD and the NIC were also the bets, and as I tried to say in my original post, these…

I think pursuing exclusive titles is a bit of a wild goose chase. They're necessary more to prop up a struggling console than to further benefit an already successful one. If the system is doing well then you don't have to convince anyone to target it. Especially in today's world where the big game engines target multiple platforms so easily, deciding to target only one is just leaving money on the table, even if you…

I think you are right, pursuing big name exclusives is often a fool's errand, and also that temporary hardware advantages like Kinect can cause exclusives to just happen, at least for a while.

But I also think that a thriving indie dev culture, as the OP is calling for (or rather, chastising MS for thwarting) can do the same thing: it can give a platform exclusive titles (games, but the same could be said of non-game apps) at least for a while, just because small indie devs can often only target one platform, at least until their indie title is a hit bringing in the cash to target other platforms.

(Had a little bit more but will have to leave it there as my laptop's reserve battery power warning is getting very insistent.)

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#185

Post by endlessvoid94 » Thu, Feb 14, 2013, 5:32 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #67

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #44

I've also been yelling this to my friends for some time. I actually can't figure out why Apple hasn't yet released an Apple TV with a more powerful graphics and some active cooling, plus a controller. Allow iOS games and you have a serious, serious competition crushing game platform with a TON of existing games and content. Instantly.

No storage. Where is the AppleTV supposed to keep the gigabytes needed to run some of these titles? Is it going to stream off the cloud every time you run it?

another friend had a similar complaint: graphics and how there isn't a fan.

these are not the things to focus on. add some hard drive space, better graphics, and a fan, and whatever else "stands in their way", and they could kill it. all of that's implied.