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I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

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Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#161

Post by NamTaf »

walkon wrote: post #114
NamTaf wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a bookmark on my iPhone that scrolls to the bottom of the page using Java. Is it not possible to hack something together that takes the hidden data (since the OP says it loads the actual info behind the white blocking screen) and reveal it instead of the white? It's another couple of button presses but if it fucks them over for this scummy tactic I'm all for it.

The iOS version should be easy since they actually send all the answers to the client and hide them. This works with my pretend iOS 5 iPhone (via Chrome): javascript:(function($) { $(".app_promo, .app_install_dialog").hide(); $(".answer_text").css({'margin-left': '110px', 'width': '88%'}); }(jQuery));

I tested it - it reveals the text just fine but the text sits off to the right of the page and you can't scroll or zoom to reflow the text in to the screen size.

Thanks for the first-pass at it though!

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#162

Post by r00fus »

lukejduncan wrote: post #65

Even worse are mobile sites that ALWAYS display a full "download our app!" page. The New York Times handles this rather gracefully I think. Go to a mobile page and they have a swipable banner that says "hey we have an app, but you can easily ignore me." I wish more sites would do this. I understand you want conversion to your app. I get it. But stop undermining your mobile experience. Sometimes it's what I need / wan…

The worst part of the "We have an app" div/interstitial is that sometimes I have that app - and I'd love for the page to redirect me.

Instead, that's too hard, and they can't detect installed apps on my phone, so I get the spam every time.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#163

Post by arocks »

jamiequint wrote: post #149

To steal a quote from Chris Dixon ( http://cdixon.org/2010/01/22/techies-and-normals/ ): "1. If you are loved first by techies and then by normals you get free marketing and also scale. Google, Skype and YouTube all followed this chronology. It is startup nirvana. 2. The next best scenario is to be loved by normals but not by the techies. The vast majority of successful consumer businesses fall into this category..."…

That's an oversimplification of the situation. A Q&A based site like Quora can be compared to it's predecessors like Experts Exchange or Stack Overflow because the content is simply enhanced by greater participation of experts. The early adopters could be techies or otherwise, but they will notice the increase in friction for sharing and using content.

Also the problem is not really "signing up". As the article points out, downloading another app just to read content on the web feels like a overkill to most people (even non techies). Especially when the most common means of searching for answers remains Google which is usually found in the browser.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#164

Post by frabcus »

jamiequint wrote: post #149

To steal a quote from Chris Dixon ( http://cdixon.org/2010/01/22/techies-and-normals/ ): "1. If you are loved first by techies and then by normals you get free marketing and also scale. Google, Skype and YouTube all followed this chronology. It is startup nirvana. 2. The next best scenario is to be loved by normals but not by the techies. The vast majority of successful consumer businesses fall into this category..."…

Great comment.

I love Quora as a Q&A vertical focussed on startups.

As a content creator though, I'm increasingly tempted to put it in the similar StackExchange site http://answers.onstartups.com/, where at least my content is CC licensed and easy to link to.

Quora doesn't live in a vacuum, it has competition.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#165

Post by zallarak »

pg wrote: post #49

I think Adam's mistake here is to go too much by the numbers. He presumably has numbers that show that Quora ends up net ahead if they force people to create accounts to read answers. He grew Facebook very effectively by following the numbers. But he may not realize how different this case is from Facebook's. It may well be that for a site like Quora, at this stage in its life, users are not all equal. It may be a mi…

I disagree - they are building a valuable repository of knowledge. If a simple login form is a deterrent for you in learning or understanding something new, that's unfortunate. Don't get me wrong, I also get a little dissapointed when it happens, but don't really mind logging in.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#166

Post by zallarak »

megablast wrote: post #143
InclinedPlane wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny, I'm more likely to fiddle about with chrome's inspector to try to remove just the right divs to get a quora page to be readable than to spend however long it takes to sign up. It's personally grating to me that they take such a boneheaded tack to content in the 21st century. Did they learn nothing from expertsexchange? It grates even more that they are putting crowd sourced content behind a wall.

Ah yes, firebug is also great for stuff like this. Click on firebug, click on the overlay, press delete. Bam, you have your page. Doesn't work so well on mobiles though.

login form. bam, you have your page. edit. works just fine on a mobile phone.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#167

Post by _b8r0 »

jarek wrote: post #129
MrMatters wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: 1. Third party statistics sites like Alexa and Compete are horribly untrustworthy indicators of reality. 2. Growing traffic isn't the best way to foster a community. I believe pg has written about this a few times, with regards to communities in general and HN. I think the Quora community is amazing. It's very populous and the quality of answers is generally on par or better than special…

HN can afford to go ahead and foster a community, but then again it hasn't taken $61 million that investors are expecting a return on.

Also HN doesn't rely on asshattery sign up tactics for you to read other peoples' content.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#168

Post by codelust »

pg wrote: post #49

I think Adam's mistake here is to go too much by the numbers. He presumably has numbers that show that Quora ends up net ahead if they force people to create accounts to read answers. He grew Facebook very effectively by following the numbers. But he may not realize how different this case is from Facebook's. It may well be that for a site like Quora, at this stage in its life, users are not all equal. It may be a mi…

I'll keep aside the logic of whether I like what they are doing or not and ask if they have any other option.

The die has already been cast in Quora's case, from what it looks like from the outside (I'm speculating wildly here), it looks like the company realized a while ago (around the time of the Charlie Cheever ousting saga) that they're growing at a pace much slower than what is expected out of them.

A $11 million series A to $50 million series B usually fits the profile of a company in hyper growth stage.

Is Quora a company that fits such a profile? All pointers (admittedly imperfect) say 'no'. Even going by their latest feature, blogs, it would appear that they're also running out of tricks. Such a feature is often a clear indicator of the flattening of user growth, leading companies to chase down usage growth aggressively to make up for the decline in the former.

But a $50 million series B should fly in the face of such an assumption. Well, maybe not. Money can either help you unlock known avenues for growth or it can help you explore unknown avenues. Either option buys time, but with different ends in sight. DAngelo putting up some of his own money certainly points at the latter. It looks like an attempt to buy time to explore.

While it is hard to wager what their burn rate should be, it is probably not enough to burn $11 million in two years. Even with the really nutty assumption that they have actually burnt $11 million in 2-years, with the current round they should be good for another 2-3 years. That's enough time to focus purely on how to massively grow the product without having to worry about how will you pay the bills in the coming week.

With that perspective in mind, it is easy to see why they're less interested in being a warm-and-cosy small community with great answers that pushes all the right buttons with the power users.

Their road ahead is a choice that's already been made. Where they will get to on that road, I don't think anyone knows yet.

One thing is certain, though. They'll either win really big, or will flame out pretty badly. They've already boxed themselves into a place where there is little space in-between.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#169

Post by SwellJoe »

MrMatters wrote: post #123
SwellJoe wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the numbers show stagnation, and Quora getting dwarfed by other (less prone to ass-hattery) answers sites, like StackOverflow. Quora traffic hasn't grown in years, according to Alexa and others. I believe they're simply optimizing the wrong variables. It has certainly driven me away. I use the google personal block list, and Quora was among the first sites to go on it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: 1. Third party statistics sites like Alexa and Compete are horribly untrustworthy indicators of reality. 2. Growing traffic isn't the best way to foster a community. I believe pg has written about this a few times, with regards to communities in general and HN. I think the Quora community is amazing. It's very populous and the quality of answers is generally on par or better than special…

"1. Third party statistics sites like Alexa and Compete are horribly untrustworthy indicators of reality."

They're always wrong. But, from what I can tell, they're usually wrong in ways that are still usefully predictive. If you compare two sites at Alexa.com, and there is a vast difference in popularity (as is the case between Quora and StackOverflow), you can probably assume StackOverflow is bigger and growing faster...even if you can't be sure how big the difference is. I wouldn't want to make business decisions on it, but it's good enough for me to feel comfortable making snarky comments about Quora.

"2. Growing traffic isn't the best way to foster a community. I believe pg has written about this a few times, with regards to communities in general and HN."

But, it is the way to justify $61 million of investment. HN doesn't have to ring the cash register. Quora does, at some point.

Anyway, I find Quora annoying. The community may be awesome, but I don't believe the curators of that community are deserving of my attention or my contribution to their walled garden.

Re: I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora

#170

Post by h2s »

mickhagen wrote: post #119
pg wrote: post #49

I think Adam's mistake here is to go too much by the numbers. He presumably has numbers that show that Quora ends up net ahead if they force people to create accounts to read answers. He grew Facebook very effectively by following the numbers. But he may not realize how different this case is from Facebook's. It may well be that for a site like Quora, at this stage in its life, users are not all equal. It may be a mi…

Here comes the mob. Really? Are we all gonna throw up our arms because of this? We use their service, we consume, read and digest their content like blood-suckers and now we get mad they're asking us to sign up? PG you've been reading Quora for "several years" and you think it's unjust they are asking you to sign up? Quora has let us eat at their house for years and now all they're asking is we take off our shoes bef…

It's good to see a dissenting point of view, but I disagree with your point about a collective sense of entitlement. It's more of a shared set of expectations about how the web works. In fact I'd argue that perhaps this point could be turned back on itself: it's the entrepreneurs who are guilty of a sense of entitlement because they want to build a closed system on top of an open one out of some perceived "right" to acquire signups.

If everybody on the web were using this tactic it would be a valueless platform. The only rational reaction, then, to those that use it, is rejection.

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