Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

insanebraintrain.blogspot.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 170 posts

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#121

Post by xshoppyx »

nnq wrote: post #112

Does anyone have real data on the LD50 (median lethal dose) for LSD in primates or something more similar to humans than rats? ...I find it nearly impossible to find any good hard data on this, and considering that the substance was once researched even by the military, there should be some data somewhere. ...and no, you can't compare LD50 for iv injected LSD with injested or mouth-absorbed LSD, there might be very d…

It was researched by the military for interrogation purposes IIRC. I think they used human subjects for this so I doubt any lethal doses were given, and doubt even further that they would be published if so.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#122

Post by Nursie »

darius42 wrote: post #38
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to others, like your friend who travels a lot and brings it up all the time. Except his stories are rational and meaningful, while stories about tripping balls are so subjective, they're meaningless. Yes,…

When I did 2 hits of acid, I had the exact opposite experience of seeing God. The fact that such a tiny amount of a mere chemical could effect my "soul" so profoundly was proof positive that the soul is completely material. I already believed this intellectually, but this experience solidified this knowledge into my very being. So personally, I would recommended experimenting with a psychedelic or two for those who w…

"I can't fathom what taking a dose thousands of times a typically heavy dose would do to you."

Pretty sure there are limits to the subjective experience somewhere, and above them there won't be much difference.

Of course somewhere up there is the LD50 as well, but that's pretty huge for ergoloids AFAICT.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#123

Post by sneak »

rdl wrote: post #42
conformal wrote: post #4

i spent a couple hours talking to a guy who had supposedly done approximately 60 mg print back in the day. one component i didn't see in this blog post was what he described as "A PIERCING WHITE LIGHT". :)

I know of a fair number of people in the "700 club" (700mg single dose, liquid, instilled onto tongue); seem to have lived productive lives to date. What's two orders of magnitude more? :)

700mcg you mean?

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#124

Post by nanidin »

derefr wrote: post #89
tytyty wrote: post #68

I take psychedelics on a regular basis. Usually a couple of times a month. Although I've done several hundred micrograms (there is really no way of knowing) of LSD at once, I also really enjoy experimenting with smaller doses and casually micro-dosing on work days. I happen to be a software engineer and try to apply my knowledge of "machines" to the psychedelic experience. While I don't believe in anything supernatur…

> I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1 brain would give me an immediate response. As far as I've read, LSD is, surprisingly, just a serotonin agonist, similar to anti-depressants or MDMA. (Technically, it's a non-selective serotonin agonist, and it does this by reversing the chemical reactions that take serotonin apart, to basically "un-use-up" serotonin you've already spent--which…

I found the series of videos by David Nichols to be very informative of what current science actually understands about psychedelic drugs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ud3NkZGmI

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#125

Post by [deleted] »

tytyty wrote: post #68

I take psychedelics on a regular basis. Usually a couple of times a month. Although I've done several hundred micrograms (there is really no way of knowing) of LSD at once, I also really enjoy experimenting with smaller doses and casually micro-dosing on work days. I happen to be a software engineer and try to apply my knowledge of "machines" to the psychedelic experience. While I don't believe in anything supernatur…

[deleted]

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#126

Post by cookingrobot »

lucisferre wrote: post #25

I wonder if intelligent machines will infect themselves with severely disruptive but temporary algorithms (viruses) and believe they too understand the meaning of life the universe and everything.

A better analogy might be giving the machine a quick peek at it's debugger.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#127

Post by mbrock »

michaelochurch wrote: post #21
oijaf888 wrote: post #6

Try reading this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DZEWF8 for another point of view on LSD and the impact it has.

I tend to think of these things as karmic accelerators. The karma that would usually ripen over 2 years is, instead, experienced in 12 hours. If that karma is negative, that might take the form of an immediate psychotic crisis instead of some longer-to-unfold variety that might, due to time, be more manageable. My personal belief is that, moreso than any religious belief, it's important to manage the karma we experie…

Hey -- great comment. Thanks.

I'd like to see a show of hands of past psychedelic use at an American dharma teachers' conference.

And I really wonder why one of these teachers hasn't written a little how-to guide for how to deal with the effects. I wouldn't really mind if it was really just a pamphlet for meditation. Just something from some kind of wise -- and nonjudgmental -- perspective. Maybe it's been done.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#128

Post by LatvjuAvs »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #14
jpdoctor wrote: post #5

I note that "It's like tripping your balls off on LSD" is missing from the list. But, funny thing: It's the most accurate. Instead you get a bunch of gobbledygook about death, eternity, and direct messages from god. The fact that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not actually enter your brain. Let's not make this more complicated than it is.

Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to others, like your friend who travels a lot and brings it up all the time. Except his stories are rational and meaningful, while stories about tripping balls are so subjective, they're meaningless. Yes,…

One who have not seen the god, fears him, worships him, denies him. One who seen the god knows it is just a reflection of himself therefore becomes either object of fear or worship or denial from other bunch.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#129

Post by derefr »

draakon wrote: post #116
derefr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1 brain would give me an immediate response. As far as I've read, LSD is, surprisingly, just a serotonin agonist, similar to anti-depressants or MDMA. (Technically, it's a non-selective serotonin agonist, and it does this by reversing the chemical reactions that take serotonin apart, to basically "un-use-up" serotonin you've already spent--which…

Thank you for this very interesting post, but I would like to point out a few things. Most currently used anti-depressants are serotonin (some also norepinephrine and/or dopamine) reuptake inhibitors , not agonists . Tetracyclic antidepressants even act as antagonist (inverse agonists). Buspirone (more an anti-anxiety than AD medication) functions as a serotonin receptor partial agonist, but that is selective (5-HT1A…

Right--I probably shouldn't have even mentioned anti-depressants; X-monoamine reuptake inhibitors don't have much at all to do with X-monoamine agonists in terms of effect.[1] I was mostly just trying to connect the discussion to something people would more commonly have actual experience with.

So, to reinforce the parent: serotonin syndrome is very dangerous for precisely that reason of "neurological gain" mentioned above--eventually when you turn gain up enough, you get clipping[2], and then you don't have a signal any more, you have a seizure. Surprisingly, it's very hard to do this with LSD--probably because of its differing pharmacodynamics from regular serotonin agonists--but it's a real risk of pretty much any other drug that affects serotonin at all, either in overdose, or in combination with other drugs, even ones you might not expect (the nicotine in cigarettes is an MAOI!)

But anyway, it's really a shame that we aren't each (legally) given the neurological equivalent of a "chemistry set" at some point in our lives, to adjust all the knobs on our own brains and learn the effects. Knowing what serotonin, dopamine, GABA, acetylcholine, etc. are in a clinical sense is one thing; but intuitively understanding that a feeling you're experiencing is the way it feels from the inside[3] when some monoamine or another happens to be at a certain level of concentration in your brain at the moment, is quite another.

[1] Though you'd be surprised what things are, in fact, reuptake inhibitors (what you classically think of as "therapeutic drugs") instead of agonists (what you clasically think of as "stimulants.") Cocaine, for example, is just a triple (serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) reuptake inhibitor; basically, ADD medication + an SNRI anti-depressant. In another society without our history of race-discrimination-related drug bans, Coca Cola (the original stuff) might be the office-worker's morning stimulant of choice instead of coffee. :)

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

[3] http://lesswrong.com/lw/no/how_an_algorithm_feels_from_insid...

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#130

Post by compee »

davorak wrote: post #90
gnosis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When I did 2 hits of acid, I had the exact opposite experience of seeing God. The fact that such a tiny amount of a mere chemical could effect my "soul" so profoundly was proof positive that the soul is completely material." Your so-called "soul" may in fact be "completely material", but I don't think what you describe above proves it. There was a famous mystic who once said something like, "when you put a lit match…

> Finally, I'm not a physicist, but from what I've read, even physicists now have a lot of trouble defining "matter" as such. As someone with physics training I do not see physicists having this trouble. > I don't think they even use the term much at all anymore. Most the physicists I know use it often. Please be a little more careful when spreading information you are not sure about. The best way in my opinion is to…

You say this and you don't give him a serious response.

>As someone with physics training I do not see physicists having this trouble

What is definitively known about mass besides E = mc^2 and the limited information we now about the Higgs Boson?

>Most the physicists I know use it often I'm glad the physicists you know use it often. Why is it used so often? If it was known what matter and mass was there would be no need to discuss it.

Post reply on HN