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Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

insanebraintrain.blogspot.fr

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Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#101

Post by cthrowaway2 »

cnp wrote: post #94
s_baby wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, I'm sure it was a positive experience, but the idea that you can learn wisdom and maturity via chemistry, well, that idea never panned out. Instead you get the typical empty-head drug talk about "seeing god" and "being nothing." And for all the elaborate salesmanship, what do these people get in the end? They're extremely ineloquent and whatever wisdom is purported to be there, just doesn't seem to be there. Ps…

"They will give you "trans-rational" experiences but you still end up interpreting that experience through whatever cognitive constructs you already hold. If you're a fundamentalist christian then you're going to interpret the experience through those constructs. If you're an atheist you're going to interpret it through those constructs." Haven't done much research, have you? A simple glance at the literature shows h…

that was a very abrasive introduction considering your gross misinterpretation of the post you were responding to.

your idea, and the one you are replying to, are not mutually exclusive. reread it's thesis: "Psychedelics give an empirical experience that is undeniable but most people don't have the cognitive constructs to interpret that experience in a logically consistent way."

put simply, LSD does not magically infuse cognitive constructs that allow you to explain or understand the actual experience that is occurring while you are tripping.

consequently, the God/Death analogy becomes easy to dismiss if you forget that they are merely a best effort articulation, not unlikely drawn from previous experiences or beliefs.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#102

Post by cthrowaway2 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #66
chimpinee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people usually misinterpret their experiences where psychedelics and religion are concerned. However it's worth noting that in striving to create and discover interesting things one becomes vulnerable to all manner of possible obsessions and addictions -- most call it going 'crazy' (e.g. Beethoven, van Gogh, Tesla, Michelangelo, Schumann, John Nash and presumably many who ceased to function altogether in…

One wonders, for example, if the Beatles or Steve Jobs, notwithstanding their hard work, could ever have become what they did if they hadn't also taken LSD at some point. Honestly? I think that people who start using these drugs end up giving them too much credit. At some point, they start attributing all interesting or creative thoughts they have to the use of drugs when, while the drug experiences played a role, th…

"At some point, they start attributing all interesting or creative thoughts they have to the use of drugs".

i have never met anyone like this. i've also never heard of someone taking it to this extreme. i'm inclined to call it a straw man.

what Steve Jobs for instance, actually said, is that LSD is "one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life".

rather than responding to a generalized anecdotal scenario, it might suit your response better to respond to Steve's quote directly.

the question is, "could Steve Jobs have become Steve Jobs without LSD?"

now, i don't think Steve's quote is enough information for us to answer conclusively. i'm sure Steve himself doesn't even know. but when you compare Steve's feelings to the question your parent prompted, "Honestly?" seems like an awfully short sighted response.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#103

Post by throwawayaccnt4 »

the_decider wrote: post #27

Hey guys, with your cynical, snide comments...What would Steve Jobs do?...Not that I condone drug use, but...at least some guys have the guts to push their limits...for better or worse.

"What would Steve Jobs do?"

try to treat his pancreatic cancer first with a juice/vegan diet rather than conventional medicine, possibly shortening his lifespan by years?

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#104

Post by arbitrarywords »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #14
jpdoctor wrote: post #5

I note that "It's like tripping your balls off on LSD" is missing from the list. But, funny thing: It's the most accurate. Instead you get a bunch of gobbledygook about death, eternity, and direct messages from god. The fact that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not actually enter your brain. Let's not make this more complicated than it is.

Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to others, like your friend who travels a lot and brings it up all the time. Except his stories are rational and meaningful, while stories about tripping balls are so subjective, they're meaningless. Yes,…

There's no shortcut to being an interesting and clever person. You gotta put the hours in

I agree, but would mention that where drugs have been useful in my life is in generating interesting avenues to put the hours into. As a shy and awkward young person who had difficulty relating to people outside a very narrow personality type, at one party where I had taken some acid, I had a mild experience of egolessness, where I became aware of all the people at the party as "real" individuals, who were all intensely fascinating people, with amazing stories and experiences and outlooks, with whom I could engage. Of course, as you point out, the hard part is integrating that experience with the rest of your life, but you've got to have the idea first.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#105

Post by cthrowaway2 »

fumar wrote: post #70

LSD is an intense drug that alters ones brain chemistry. We are those neurons and synapses. When they change, we change. LSD will alter one's perspectives. Maybe the correct statement is, add more perspectives.

we are neurons and synapses? is it not perhaps the case that neurons and synapses are simply arbitrary inputs into our true selves? which, like any input, could be configured, removed, or entirely replaced.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#106

Post by linuxhansl »

Loss of ego. Personal death. Seeing ALL, the "connectiveness" of everything.

This sounds like an extreme version of some of the experiences I had while meditating (usually after the 30-50 minute mark). These experiences for me typically vanish as soon as I come out of meditation. But something sticks, as if the mind is reminded of the experience at random times. Those times feel like "seeing the matrix". You're suddenly here seeing the intricacy of everything.

There have been Buddhist monks who after trying LSD suggested that it could be some kind of "accelerator" on the spiritual path.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#108

Post by nathan_f77 »

derefr wrote: post #89
tytyty wrote: post #68

I take psychedelics on a regular basis. Usually a couple of times a month. Although I've done several hundred micrograms (there is really no way of knowing) of LSD at once, I also really enjoy experimenting with smaller doses and casually micro-dosing on work days. I happen to be a software engineer and try to apply my knowledge of "machines" to the psychedelic experience. While I don't believe in anything supernatur…

> I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1 brain would give me an immediate response. As far as I've read, LSD is, surprisingly, just a serotonin agonist, similar to anti-depressants or MDMA. (Technically, it's a non-selective serotonin agonist, and it does this by reversing the chemical reactions that take serotonin apart, to basically "un-use-up" serotonin you've already spent--which…

That was incredibly insightful, thanks very much for posting!

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#109

Post by iwasphone »

I'm glad to see so few commenters dismissing the subject because of their own lack of perspective, and so many commenters articulating their experiences so well.

The Internet--which incidentally owes its current incarnation to so many acid-dropping individuals--has provided many forums (fora?) for truthful discourse about these substances. Those who have had experience with LSD together have a voice that is going to drown out the insane, fearful rambling propaganda of the prohibitionists. It's safe to say we've reached a tipping point, and it's only a matter of time before we recover our freedom to explore our minds. Respect.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#110

Post by swombat »

wfn wrote: post #75
DanBC wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1962 a scientist gave an elephant LSD. Unfortunately they got the dosing very wrong and gave the animal a massive overdose. The elephant died. ( http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/05/30/science-va... )

If I recall the story correctly, they gave the elephant other drugs, too (to counter the effects of LSD after some hours/time into the experiment), and some of those countering drugs had associated known LD-50 (probably not measured for elephants, though..) - would need to reread the original text.

Yes, I don't have a link to the original article, but iirc they gave the elephant a gigantic dose compared to its body weight (the amount needed per kg of body weight goes down dramatically as body weight increases). The elephant started having what looked like seizures (faire enough, after basically eating the human equivalent of a full thimble of LSD), so they gave it a whole bunch of other drugs to try and stop the seizure. Then other things happened, so they gave it more drugs... etc.
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