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Stupid, Stupid xBox

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Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#81

Post by rbanffy »

nemothekid wrote: post #56
theevocater wrote: post #28

I've been shouting this for as long as I could: Once Apple (or maybe an Android company or even someone new) enters this market in earnest, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo should take watch. Apple has the infrastructure to deliver games, has tiny/medium/large touch devices that can connect via bluetooth in many customers hands (which already play games), and many many game developers familiar with the platforms. Every big st…

>If Apple can position the AppleTV as a console (maybe open it up to developers) or build something more along the lines of a traditional console, they will crush. This opinion is pushed around a lot, however I cannot really see it happening, and I doubt Apple will ever pursue such a strategy. For Apple to enter the console market, they would have to compete with the big boys, meaning if it can't push 100 million pol…

> meaning if it can't push 100 million polygons at 1080p it will never get great adoption

If you look at the Wii sales, you'll notice polygon pushing does not equate sales or profits.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#82

Post by chc »

clobber wrote: post #77
chc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm saying they're still losing money. In what world? The Xbox has been turning a profit for most of its life. AFAIK it lost money its first couple of years (primarily due to the fact it was rushed to market), and since then it has been largely propping up Microsoft's entertainment division, which otherwise would be bleeding like mad. (The division lost money last year not because the Xbox was unprofitable, but bec…

> In what world? Ecomonomics? > The Xbox has been profitable for most of its life No. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSmlk-Wo4uhdEh...

You just posted a chart detailing a whole division's profits and losses as opposed to the Xbox's. But regardless, it shows that division being a huge loser until two years after the Xbox hits, at which point it magically becomes profitable, until 2012 when the division starts pouring money into Windows Phone, at which point it magically becomes unprofitable again. This is exactly the way I described things. To recap:

"it lost money its first couple of years … and since then it has been largely propping up Microsoft's entertainment division, which otherwise would be bleeding like mad."

That is exactly what that chart shows. The Xbox has been turning a yearly profit since 2008, which means it's been turning a profit for most of its life.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#83

Post by HelloMcFly »

GuiA wrote: post #7

"how it is crushing its original console competitors" Previous gen: > Xbox sales: 24 million > PS2 sales: 153 million Current gen: > Xbox 360 sales: 76 million > Wii sales: 100 million > PS3 sales: 70 million (all data from each console's respective Wikipedia) How is it "crushing" its competitors? Otherwise, I bought an XBox360 recently to get the Kinect for openFrameworks hacking and played a little bit with the con…

A few things:

- People buy more games per console (not even including digital sales) on the Xbox which is the real money-maker

- People pay Microsoft an annual fee for XBL which their competitors provide for free

- People spend more money on XBL on top the annual fee compared to their competitors for digital goods

- They actually get ad revenue for XBL on top of the annual fee and digital goods revenue

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#84

Post by theevocater »

nemothekid wrote: post #78
theevocater wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, good point I totally forgot about valve holy crap. That should be soon! I'm not sure Apple will/would do it, but I think they have the muscle. They aren't competing with CoD, they are competing with Tetris. They want you to buy and play games on your media device, not watch media on your games device. Hugely different market which is ripe for picking. Apple would probably not build a device they lose money on…

If Apple is competing with Tetris, then Nintendo/Sony/Xbox won't have to worry about them. The people in that space are Smart TVs, Rokus, and Apple TVs, which already exist and aren't eating Nintendo's lunch. If your console cannot play Call of Duty and Mario like the big boys, you aren't really competing in the same space, and as long as Mario and CoD are popular, your average person will simply just buy the iDevice…

Think about the long term though. Apple has already convinced millions of people to put the AppleTV in their homes. With a simple update they could enable iDevices and an App Store to allow developers to do crazy stuff. Then at next iteration they unveil offerings more tuned to hardcore gamers. They liked the first one, now they want more. Apple is already deep in the gaming market, they have the patience.

So yeah at first Apple will compete with on delivering simpler game experience like Angry Birds or Space Team or Letterpress. But so what? People love those! Don't forget that "hardcore" gamers are no longer the focus here, other markets are much bigger. Apple can wait to focus on bigger titles.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#85

Post by MichaelGG »

mieubrisse wrote: post #10

Though I can't speak to the internal politics of Microsoft, I can say that as a gamer I don't remember ever getting upset at the pain points the author listed. Granted, I'm coming from a technical background (as are most people here), so I'm obviously not in the perspective of the small child the author sometimes takes in the picture captions. However, I feel there's a tension between the complexity of an application…

Really? Every time I try to use my Xbox, I have to deal with the idiotically slow UI. Seriously, if I press the Xbox button, it pops up a grey rectangle, and takes several seconds to load in details. The dashboard is cluttered with ads (although only one tile is labeled so).

Browsing games to buy on the Xbox itself is painfully slow. Many, many, seconds, just for simple screens to load.

This guy totally nailed the reason I don't start up my Xbox as often as I'd like: It's annoying to get into. Once I'm in a game, it's _usually_ OK, although the slow saving thing is jarring. But the thought of it starting up, asking to update and reboot (usually 2 or 3 times in a row) - ah screw it.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#86

Post by mikec3k »

theevocater wrote: post #28

I've been shouting this for as long as I could: Once Apple (or maybe an Android company or even someone new) enters this market in earnest, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo should take watch. Apple has the infrastructure to deliver games, has tiny/medium/large touch devices that can connect via bluetooth in many customers hands (which already play games), and many many game developers familiar with the platforms. Every big st…

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the OUYA becomes available. A lot of major developers have already committed to support it. I can't wait to get my Kickstarter unit in a few months.

I met with them last year when they were talking about possibly acquiring Bionic Panda Games (which unfortunately didn't happen) and they seem to have an interesting business model. Every game will have a free version, either a full but limited version or a playable demo, and they'll have their own store similar to Google Play.

The only deficiency is that they don't have a motion controller like the Kinect or Wiimote.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#87

Post by hoodoof »

This article is spot on. Why are indie developers not racing to develop apps for Xbox? Xbox should treat all apps, games, music, radio stations as equal, be they from indie developers, microsoft or from big name publishers. Provide a seamless tile space navigable via touchscreen.

Oh, no wait, Apple is doing this already, and when it comes to the TV, we'll stop wishing Xbox could do it.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#89

Post by jrockway »

wmf wrote: post #79
jrockway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using correct English capitalization rules makes someone "uninformed" now?

Given that it's a proper noun and the pronunciation is "X Box", I would think the pseudo-initialism "XBox" would be more proper English.

Given enough time, everything becomes assimilated to look "normal". Consider the words RADAR (RAdio Detection And Ranging) and LASER (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) -- what started as initialisms became normal words after people started using them regularly. It can presumably happen to newer words like "Xbox" and "Gmail" too.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#90

Post by theevocater »

mikec3k wrote: post #86
theevocater wrote: post #28

I've been shouting this for as long as I could: Once Apple (or maybe an Android company or even someone new) enters this market in earnest, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo should take watch. Apple has the infrastructure to deliver games, has tiny/medium/large touch devices that can connect via bluetooth in many customers hands (which already play games), and many many game developers familiar with the platforms. Every big st…

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the OUYA becomes available. A lot of major developers have already committed to support it. I can't wait to get my Kickstarter unit in a few months. I met with them last year when they were talking about possibly acquiring Bionic Panda Games (which unfortunately didn't happen) and they seem to have an interesting business model. Every game will have a free version, either…

I wish it well but my assumption is that it will fail :(

Hardware is hard; software is hard; distribution is hard; but they want to do all of it all at once. I wish them the best but I don't see them lasting unless they get acquired

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