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Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

usatoday.com

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Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#31

Post by rayiner »

stevvooe wrote: post #26
tptacek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another illustration of the unintended consequences of authorizations by Congress for war (obviously, in this case, an unavoidable war, but still). The order to authorize internment camps was the result of two forces: * Intense and direct recommendations from FDR's entire war staff and intelligence apparatus, which believed that there was an unacceptably high probability that Japanese and German populations would…

If this is not an illustration of an executive power grab, what power authorizes the executive branch to round up a group of people? Even so, legal or not, there is no valid reason to legitimize the internment of Japanese-American citizens.

The President has broad powers to direct the military to take action. Telling the military what to do is a power uniquely within the President's purview. Telling the military to round up a group of people falls squarely within that power.

That's not a legitimization of the situation--you can argue that Japanese internment was illegal for other reasons, but we're not talking about the legality of Japanese internment in general. We're talking about the executive usurping powers reserved to Congress.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#32

Post by rayiner »

crusso wrote: post #24
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet was born out of government intervention.

He said "flourished". The state of being implemented by some basic government-funded research is almost completely disconnected from the time when commercial interests took the idea and ran with it -- causing it to "flourish".

The internet wasn't implemented by some basic government funded research. It was designed and built under a DARPA project and designed and implemented by key pieces of the military industrial complex (BBN, etc). It was run by the DOD and "flourished" long before it was commercialized.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#33

Post by bcoates »

skylan_q wrote: post #29
tptacek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did the wild west.

I never knew why they called it the wild west. It was very tame.

Well, every once in a while the government would come by and regulate a population out of existence for security reasons. But that was the old days, they're totally trustworthy and non-murdery now.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#34

Post by chimi »

ck2 wrote: post #3

The order should be all critical computers like power-grid control should not be able to connect to the internet in any way or have usb ports or DVD drives. I have this fear that somewhere an ICBM is on an internet router because some general wants to monitor it. Sounds insane right? Well why are power stations on the internet?

As a former employee of one of the US's largest electric utilities, I can answer this question.

The reason is quite simple. Most power plants are in the middle of nowhere and people with the capability to manage them don't want to live near them, not because of the plants themselves, but because they are in tiny rural towns, which most people understand and appreciate. To make good decisions, the experts, who prefer to live in metropolitan areas (like most people do) need access to the data these generators produce. If the generators weren't on the internet, that'd be impossible.

TLDR: Power stations are on the internet for the same reason everything else is on the internet.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#35

Post by adventured »

rayiner wrote: post #30
harold wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a time not long ago when skepticism of government was considered healthy, even here on HN.

There's not that fine a line between skepticism and ignorant paranoia. Many people here on HN react in a paranoid manner to government initiatives without bothering to even read the proposals or educate themselves about the situation beyond what they hear from the echo chamber.

The government has earned a very large dose of paranoia. They keep trying to intentionally rob us of our liberty, and they've been doing it mostly as behind-closed-doors as they can get away with.

The old joke is it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. The government keeps demonstrating it's really out to get us, or specifically it wants vast new powers over every remaining corner of freedom, including the Internet.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#36

Post by adventured »

rayiner wrote: post #32
crusso wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said "flourished". The state of being implemented by some basic government-funded research is almost completely disconnected from the time when commercial interests took the idea and ran with it -- causing it to "flourish".

The internet wasn't implemented by some basic government funded research. It was designed and built under a DARPA project and designed and implemented by key pieces of the military industrial complex (BBN, etc). It was run by the DOD and "flourished" long before it was commercialized.

The Internet isn't ARPANET any more than Ethernet is ALOHA.

The technology that made the Internet possible was almost exclusively private sector technology. The desire, effort and vision to put together large networks was already in place by the time the government made their move.

The government helped, no question about it, but all the pieces were already there to make it happen. The private sector was driving that direction and would have built out very large networks regardless of the government.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#37

Post by dfc »

skylan_q wrote: post #29
tptacek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did the wild west.

I never knew why they called it the wild west. It was very tame.

When you say this are you ignoring or denying the experience of Native Americans? Because from what I understand tame is not a word often used to describe the Trail of Tears or Wounded Knee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#38

Post by tptacek »

adventured wrote: post #35
rayiner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not that fine a line between skepticism and ignorant paranoia. Many people here on HN react in a paranoid manner to government initiatives without bothering to even read the proposals or educate themselves about the situation beyond what they hear from the echo chamber.

The government has earned a very large dose of paranoia. They keep trying to intentionally rob us of our liberty, and they've been doing it mostly as behind-closed-doors as they can get away with. The old joke is it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. The government keeps demonstrating it's really out to get us, or specifically it wants vast new powers over every remaining corner of freedom, including th…

It doesn't matter what they've earned. If you're wrong, you're wrong. You can't mitigate your wrongness by saying you came by it honestly.

(That goes for me too, of course. Totally possible I'm wrong.)

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#39

Post by tptacek »

logn wrote: post #25
tptacek wrote: post #9

Have any of you actually read the executive order? If not, did you perhaps notice who the sources were for the stories being written about it today? There was a cybersecurity order on the table last year (it wasn't enacted). HN got up in arms about it. Some of us read it. Guess what? It concerned itself almost entirely with the operational security of the federal government itself (which operates the world's largest…

I'm not sure where the executive order is published, if anywhere, but it's a direct response to the failed CISPA in Congress. EFF criticized CISPA as violating 4th amendment rights by giving government new powers to spy on the public. Also opposed: Tim Berners-Lee, ACLU, Demand Progress, Reporters Without Borders, Mozilla, ACM.

Oh, look: a syllogism supported by a list of names and organizations, and not one fact about what's in the executive order that you haven't read, nor one direct concern about CISPA. Perhaps you could start by explaining why Tim Berners-Lee opposes CISPA. Maybe that explanation could include a firm statement about whether Berners-Lee read CISPA. It wouldn't be much of a knock on him if he hadn't; CISPA was the target of a huge fundraising effort by EFF.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#40

Post by fatkid »

the govt's efforts on cyber security are almost as much of a joke as their response to protecting private businesses. unless you're google or a major bank, getting some sort of response from the fbi/ic3. Have tried playing by the rules when a client is attacked and submitting the information to them, but never any response. Most of the time i brush these attacks off as my own failure to keep things locked down but on the more serious attacks i've submitted server logs, documentation tracking the person back to their home address, facebook page, mother's phone number, everything they could possible need to arrest and prosecute. nothing but crickets.

glad they're starting to make some effort, but from software loopholes to literally exposed (outside & unprotected) hardware/transmission equipment, doubtful they'll never get their shoes on the right feet.

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