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Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

usatoday.com

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Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#11

Post by tptacek »

ck2 wrote: post #3

The order should be all critical computers like power-grid control should not be able to connect to the internet in any way or have usb ports or DVD drives. I have this fear that somewhere an ICBM is on an internet router because some general wants to monitor it. Sounds insane right? Well why are power stations on the internet?

An executive order that forbad private companies from connecting to the Internet would be far more of an executive overreach than anything proposed for cybersecurity by the executive, the Democrats in the Senate, or the Republicans in the House.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#12

Post by rayiner »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #5

The fundamental problem with this in my opinion starts with the executive order. As the article states: the executive's job is to enforce laws, not make them. EO's have stepped well beyond that in the last 20 years, with the executive branch becoming more sovereign in nature, which scares the hell out of me. We do need a cyber security bill, but it should be passed by Congress, whose job it is to iron out all the com…

The principle underlying executive orders is that they don't make laws, but guide enforcement discretion that the President already has.

I'm curious to see what executive orders you think overstep the line from guiding enforcement discretion to outright lawmaking.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#14

Post by thirsteh »

mtgx wrote: post #10
thirsteh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also need to monitor or update the software and machinery, so you'll probably want some kind of internal network. But can other things than the control systems connect to that network? Then you're screwed, unless you can absolutely guarantee that e.g. a laptop connected to the same network can't be compromised/transported out of the facility. Iran's SCADA controllers were not connected to the Internet when they g…

But Obama's problem seems to be with the Internet. So keep those off the Internet, and then pass whatever legislation and executive orders they want for those networks, and leave the Internet alone. Of course the reality is this executive order is going to have many "gotchas" hidden in it, to give the executive more power over the Internet, and we probably won't learn about them until it's too late.

Yeah, no disagreement.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#15

Post by stevvooe »

rayiner wrote: post #12
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #5

The fundamental problem with this in my opinion starts with the executive order. As the article states: the executive's job is to enforce laws, not make them. EO's have stepped well beyond that in the last 20 years, with the executive branch becoming more sovereign in nature, which scares the hell out of me. We do need a cyber security bill, but it should be passed by Congress, whose job it is to iron out all the com…

The principle underlying executive orders is that they don't make laws, but guide enforcement discretion that the President already has. I'm curious to see what executive orders you think overstep the line from guiding enforcement discretion to outright lawmaking.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#16

Post by rgrieselhuber »

stevvooe wrote: post #15
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principle underlying executive orders is that they don't make laws, but guide enforcement discretion that the President already has. I'm curious to see what executive orders you think overstep the line from guiding enforcement discretion to outright lawmaking.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly why legislation is a process that requires oversight and accountability. I'll never understand why people are willing to write the president a blank check.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#17

Post by shmerl »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #5

The fundamental problem with this in my opinion starts with the executive order. As the article states: the executive's job is to enforce laws, not make them. EO's have stepped well beyond that in the last 20 years, with the executive branch becoming more sovereign in nature, which scares the hell out of me. We do need a cyber security bill, but it should be passed by Congress, whose job it is to iron out all the com…

This reminds me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#18

Post by tptacek »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #16
stevvooe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly why legislation is a process that requires oversight and accountability. I'll never understand why people are willing to write the president a blank check.

Yet another illustration of the unintended consequences of authorizations by Congress for war (obviously, in this case, an unavoidable war, but still).

The order to authorize internment camps was the result of two forces:

* Intense and direct recommendations from FDR's entire war staff and intelligence apparatus, which believed that there was an unacceptably high probability that Japanese and German populations would engage in sabotage during the war

* ENORMOUS public pressure, particularly in California, to eject Japanese citizens

The Japanese internment debacle is a blemish and a tragedy, no doubt, but it's not an illustration of an executive power grab. The whole country shares the blame for it.

The lesson I take from it is the same as the lesson I take from drone strikes blowing up wedding parties: Congress should be extraordinarily careful and guarded in its authorizations for using military force of any sort.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#19

Post by harold »

tptacek wrote: post #9

Have any of you actually read the executive order? If not, did you perhaps notice who the sources were for the stories being written about it today? There was a cybersecurity order on the table last year (it wasn't enacted). HN got up in arms about it. Some of us read it. Guess what? It concerned itself almost entirely with the operational security of the federal government itself (which operates the world's largest…

I remember a time not long ago when skepticism of government was considered healthy, even here on HN.

Re: Obama expected to issue cybersecurity executive order

#20

Post by ihsw »

tptacek wrote: post #11
ck2 wrote: post #3

The order should be all critical computers like power-grid control should not be able to connect to the internet in any way or have usb ports or DVD drives. I have this fear that somewhere an ICBM is on an internet router because some general wants to monitor it. Sounds insane right? Well why are power stations on the internet?

An executive order that forbad private companies from connecting to the Internet would be far more of an executive overreach than anything proposed for cybersecurity by the executive, the Democrats in the Senate, or the Republicans in the House.

Then those private companies shouldn't be in charge of critical infrastructure.
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