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Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

johannakoll.posterous.com

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Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#101

Post by vannevar »

coldtea wrote: post #56
rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

Would anyone raise even an eyebrow if a woman sliped a sexy male model photo in a slide?

The context is not symmetrical. Men have not been historically discriminated against in the workplace on the same massive scale that women have.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#102

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #59
DanBC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correct…

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

[deleted]

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#103

Post by xentronium »

danso wrote: post #10

Before this devolves into a how-uptight-is-this-person-really? discussion, I was impressed with the OP author's levelheaded, friendly response to someone who reportedly made, IMO, a pretty egregious slide: https://twitter.com/johannakoll/status/300645432013516800

I have to say, I was not sure, but this slide was very mean.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#104

Post by aredington »

Sexism isn't a problem that exists in conferences, it is a problem that is pervasive in the industry surrounding software. In that industry, women are a minority of workers, and they enjoy fewer privileges than their male peers.

When a person presents at a conference with material intended to be humorous, but where the humor excludes women, it is adding to the problem that women do not enjoy an equal position with men. It reinforces that this is an industry where men are privileged, and sets an example for others of privileging men.

I can't imagine someone publicly defending racist jokes included in a conference in this day and age. Even if it's "just a joke", it excludes members of the audience based on circumstances of their birth. The same applies equally well to sexist jokes which exclude members of the audience based on circumstances of their birth, yet people are willing to publicly defend the choice to be sexist.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#105

Post by aneth4 »

There seems to be the usual disconnect here between the meaning of sexism and sexual.

Sexual references and images can make people uncomfortable and may be inappropriate, but they are not sexist. It's not surprising that in a male dominated field, sexual references are primarily female - this also doesn't make them sexist.

Sexist: "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."

Again, these images may be inappropriate in a professional context, but they are not sexist. In my personal opinion, sexuality is a part of life and sexual references don't bother me. They should be used judiciously and not to the point of distraction, but they are not inherently inappropriate. Others may disagree.

Calling sexuality sexist is sexist itself. It implies that sexuality is the domain of one gender, when in fact it is universal.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#107

Post by dasil003 »

coldtea wrote: post #71
dasil003 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or because it makes them uncomfortable. But in any case, yes, it's true you can make a joke about anything. George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. George Carlin was also one of the most brilliant comedians ever to live so he could pull it off. The simple fact is that "jokes" which reinforce current power structure are not good jokes. As a man you don't get to decide how women should feel about scantily…

> George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. Famously? People have been making jokes about farse worse matters than rape for millenia. From war, to incurable illness, to genocide, to torture, to the plague, everything has been made into the subject of a joke. It might be a novel concept for a prudish, politically correct section society, but it's historically true.

What does fame have to do with novelty?

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#108

Post by chacham15 »

rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

FWIW, it has also been shown that women are okay accepting lower salaries and are less likely to ask for raises (i.e. less aggressive at trying to get better wages and such). This is not to say that I think that sexism doesnt exist, but rather that your 'evidence' is potentially misleading/false.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#109

Post by danso »

danielhellier wrote: post #51
danso wrote: post #10

Before this devolves into a how-uptight-is-this-person-really? discussion, I was impressed with the OP author's levelheaded, friendly response to someone who reportedly made, IMO, a pretty egregious slide: https://twitter.com/johannakoll/status/300645432013516800

> "We are hiring fashion interns" and the photo on the slide shows girls in underwear. Disappointing. (Upside: quite a few girls at #seedhack)" The word sexist is going to lose all meaning if people throw it about like this.

So what is lacking from that slide, as the OP depicts it, that disqualifies the OP interpreting it as sexist?

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#110

Post by coldtea »

[deleted] wrote: post #102
coldtea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

[deleted]

See, you just called me a "douche" in polite (from my part) conversation.

That's your way of advocating for more politeness? Just goes to show the hypocrisy of the whole thing.

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