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Web Development: A Crazy World

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51–60 of 206 posts

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#51
post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

The second sentence really tells all. " Just learned Backbone.js and only found out it’s already out of fashion ." This is why critical thinking and a sight of the big picture is so important. Who cares if something is fashionable? Does Backbone help you solve your problems? Yes? then use it. No? Don't use it.

"Does Backbone help you solve your problems?"

This really bears repeating over and over again, and I think it's a corollary of "start by writing the dumbest thing that can possibly work."

If you start with dumb, simple things, the problems become more obvious. Dumb simple things tend to shake out the parts that are tedious to build, or non-conformant, or confusing to read, or hard to maintain. It may be that Backbone (or any of the dozens of other gizmos) alleviate the problems, but you really have to understand the problem first.

I really think a lot of people are seduced by the marketing of various tools and frameworks into thinking they have (or will have) problems that they don't actually have. Then they end up with over-engineered solutions that are all the things they hoped to avoid.

Don't meant to criticize backbone, or any other framework (or language, or platform). A fancy, hip tool can be just thing. The question is: do you know what "the thing" is really for, and does it fit your situation?

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#53
I'm far from an expert coder compared to most on here...but...what's the big deal? Once you've grokked server-side code and framework, is it really that hard to move from Rails to Sinatra or even to Django? Once you know databases, how hard is it to switch from SQLite to Postgres or to even Mongo? Same goes with Javascript frameworks.

Now, I'm referring to the scope of what a web-developer needs to know to interface with these technologies...obviously, a database engineer is expected to dive deep and know all the quirks/limitations of NoSQL vs SQL.

Is the complaint that "Oh shit, I don't know if I can learn new syntax?" Or is it more, "The hiring market is segmented by too many technologies for me to claim to be an expert at?"

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#55
post #13

I agree and can see where OP is coming from. As a Chinese, I notice the difference in how we approach problems. Let me make an analogy: Chinese and western dude learns guitar. The Chinese player will worry about the scales, the hammer on/off drills, chord drills, picking drills, and maybe practice a song and focus on technicalities; western dude would pick a guitar, learn a few chords to play a song, realise that to…

I think you are generalizing the issue too much. also take a look at the comment of the original author of the post. he is not Chinese: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5206578

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence really tells all. " Just learned Backbone.js and only found out it’s already out of fashion ." This is why critical thinking and a sight of the big picture is so important. Who cares if something is fashionable? Does Backbone help you solve your problems? Yes? then use it. No? Don't use it.

"Does Backbone help you solve your problems?" This really bears repeating over and over again, and I think it's a corollary of "start by writing the dumbest thing that can possibly work." If you start with dumb, simple things, the problems become more obvious. Dumb simple things tend to shake out the parts that are tedious to build, or non-conformant, or confusing to read, or hard to maintain. It may be that Backbone…

I don't know if this is good or bad, but when I read "... the dumbest thing that can possibly work" I immediately thought "PHP!"

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#58
post #53

I'm far from an expert coder compared to most on here...but...what's the big deal? Once you've grokked server-side code and framework, is it really that hard to move from Rails to Sinatra or even to Django? Once you know databases, how hard is it to switch from SQLite to Postgres or to even Mongo? Same goes with Javascript frameworks. Now, I'm referring to the scope of what a web-developer needs to know to interface…

> "The hiring market is segmented by too many technologies for me to claim to be an expert at?"

I think that's a concern to many new programmers (myself included) when looking at the pace these tools and frameworks are coming out and then maturing.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#60
Web Development is fine, it's the Javascript, and especially the frontend world that's the problem.

Why do we bother with a language that's inconcise, lacks so many common, useful functions (enumerals, strings, etc), and general doesn't do what we want it to do? In spite of fundamental problems, people try to address them with custom solutions. Those are inherently very PERSONAL solutions - because everyone wants to do it well and better - bound to raise discussion and competition at some point. That's what's happening. People are trying to fix something broken with their own, idealistic ideas.

There's nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong, but I think we all know that we can do better on a more fundamental level.

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