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'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

theaustralian.com.au

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Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#61

Post by dba7dba »

Volpe wrote: post #45
refurb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the issue is that NK is an openly hostile country that is not only threatening its southern neighbor but also the region. India and Pakistan may have a beef with each other, but they weren't a destabilizing force in the region, or maybe more accurately, if they were, it wasn't a huge concern of the superpowers at the time.

NK v SK conflict is not that different to India v Pakistan. The difference is... there are US troops sitting on the border of NK/SK, so agression between those to parties involves the US. So who is the destabilising force in the region? I'm pretty sure "stability" isn't the goal (for the US) it's "Democracy".

There are NO US troops sitting on the DMZ. There are a very few US GIs acting as sort of UN monitor type near DMZ. Most of the US troops are well away from the DMZ.

Btw, N Korea has a regular standing army numbering a million. S Korea has 550,000. US has just a few thousands.

And let's not forget who STARTED the whole Korean War.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#62

Post by ISL »

dba7dba wrote: post #48
ISL wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran is not presently capable of flattening a city the size of Seoul on a few moments' notice. Different situation, different response.

N Korea can NOT flatten Seoul in a few moments' notice because of the following: 1) Seoul is a HUGE city. 2) N Korea actually doesn't have UNlimited number of artillery tubes capable of reaching Seoul. There are hundreds (maybe a few thousand) tubes but these are heavy ones, meaning they would be lucky to get off a shot every few minutes. And they would have to be concentrated in a relatively small area near DMZ to r…

I sit partially corrected:

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-kore...

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2012/06/north-korea-cant-really-...

https://www.google.com/search?q=north+korean+artillery+capab...

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#64

Post by kenbot »

Volpe wrote: post #38
panacea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. It's not. Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries.

> You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. No, I don't think that. > Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries. The US opened this can of worms and created an imbalance in the world. North Korea is surrounded by nuclear enabled countries (China, Russia, South Korea, and Japan). As an aside: What exactly is 'unstab…

The US... what? How?

The North started the Korean war, not the US.

US troops maintain a balance of power in the region, which has allowed South Korea and Japan to develop into wealthy, stable industrialised democracies.

Regardless of the longevity of the Kim family, North Korea has an unsustainable and fragile economic and political system which is widely suspected to be susceptible to imminent collapse, with unknown consequences. They have also frequently staged unprovoked fatal military attacks on Southern territory in the last few years. They were caught trying to smuggle probable nuclear components to Burma. They were caught trying to smuggle an enormous shipload of drugs into Australia.

They are not in any way equivalent to the US in terms of odious behaviour in the region.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#65

Post by dba7dba »

zensavona wrote: post #40
panacea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. It's not. Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries.

Well the only reason it isn't 'some sort of national right' is because the US and their allies are the ones who made the rules which decides who can have nukes. If the US and their allies are going to develop, test, and keep nukes on hand - why should anyone else not? If they want to make a point about nuclear weapons being 'wrong', lead by example.

S Korea and Japan would LOVE to have their own nukes but they can't. And they are some of the most valuable/closes allies of US.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#66

Post by Spooky23 »

dba7dba wrote: post #48
ISL wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran is not presently capable of flattening a city the size of Seoul on a few moments' notice. Different situation, different response.

N Korea can NOT flatten Seoul in a few moments' notice because of the following: 1) Seoul is a HUGE city. 2) N Korea actually doesn't have UNlimited number of artillery tubes capable of reaching Seoul. There are hundreds (maybe a few thousand) tubes but these are heavy ones, meaning they would be lucky to get off a shot every few minutes. And they would have to be concentrated in a relatively small area near DMZ to r…

5) The Chinese don't have a reason to allow North Korea to flatten Seoul.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#67

Post by dba7dba »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #13
mjn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades that's been the problem. South Korea's population centers are too close to the North for an attack to be a reasonable risk: even decades-old artillery and unguided rockets can hit Seoul, launched from hundreds of dug-in sites. So things have been organized around trying to pressure North Korea in various ways, either via China, or directly, but without force being a seriously considered option.

Yep. This is what happens when you expand too close to the enemy's base..

Seoul had been the capital of S Korea for 5+ centuries. After Korean war ended, S Korea was just too poor to even consider moving their capital.

There were attempts to move capital city to central part of S Korea later but they've been a bit busy (assassination of president, industrialization, democratization, PSY, etc).

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#68

Post by rtrunck »

cpeterso wrote: post #58
mikegioia wrote: post #5

So when they did this in 2006, the UN issued weapons sanctions against North Korea[1]. Then when they did it again in 2009, the UN issued more sanctions[2] that apparently NK considered an 'act of war'. From them, the world has intercepted a whopping 6 North Korean boats and 1 North Korean airplane. Aside from "issuing even more sanctions" what options are available to the UN? Good luck trying to send in a team of pe…

What is North Korea's motivation? Given the UN's predicable past responses, North Korea must gain some political benefit from these UN responses.

Foreign aid so citizens of North Korea can eat.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#69

Post by caf »

Volpe wrote: post #38
panacea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. It's not. Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries.

> You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. No, I don't think that. > Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries. The US opened this can of worms and created an imbalance in the world. North Korea is surrounded by nuclear enabled countries (China, Russia, South Korea, and Japan). As an aside: What exactly is 'unstab…

and its Nastiness extends only as far as its borders...

This is not strictly true - for example in recent years there has been the sinking of the Cheonan and the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#70

Post by niggler »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #18

My father-in-law was a VP in Northrop Grumman's space and satellite division. The kinds of projects he worked on were space defense satellites. When he looked at all the uncertainty in the world (much caused at least indirectly by the US), his biggest fear was and continues to be North Korea. Given the types of people I know he met with, this test does not fill me with warm fuzzies.

" his biggest fear was and continues to be North Korea."

Can you go into why? The sentiment runs at odds with Bush's obsession with Iraq/Iran.

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