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Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

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Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#141

Post by elptacek »

shawndumas wrote: post #122
elptacek wrote: post #116

A teacher approached my mother when I was 15 and strongly suggested that I be allowed to take the GED and move on to college. Later, an employer approached both of my parents and strongly suggested that I be allowed to take the GED and attend culinary school. Both adults were ignored. Outside of these two, there was no guidance available to me for seeking an education beyond high school. To this day, I believe that t…

without disagreeing with a thing you wrote, you're assuming that he even wants/needs to go to college

You make a good point. It was completely necessary for me, not at all for Tom. If this kid can position himself in such a way that he has access to the kind of resources that universities have without having to go to one... he should be quite happy.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#142

Post by zootar »

tptacek wrote: post #85
InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what temporal means? It means that something is time sensitive I.E. my computer is temporal, because it will only exist in it's current working state for a certain period of time. And I would agree that I'm not the best writer, but are there not people who are far worse at constructing a proper sentence that have graduated high-school AND college? I don't think that I won't benefit from further instructi…

"Temporal" means either "relating directly to time" or, idiomatically, "relating to the affairs of life on this earth instead of the afterlife". You meant "transitory". Your situation is fascinating. You are simultaneously me (although substitute software exploit development for Minecraft hosting and subtract a lot of dollars) at Jesuit school in the '90s and, from what I can see coming, my son (now 13). Can I offer…

What fiction do you recommend? A comment of yours from a few years ago describes how I feel about fiction now: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=917882.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#143

Post by shawndumas »

quasque wrote: post #139
shawndumas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the insipid inanity that they pass off as "knowledge" really is not worth his time. he would be much better served reading broadly; historic fiction, science/nature periodicals, the classics etc

As I am unfamiliar with the state of the US education system, could you please explain what exactly are you referring to?

below is an example of what is done and what to do diff. this is about science but you can extrapolate to the other subjects.

teachers like Tyler DeWitt are vastly underrepresented in the school system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVwWN0kjbms&list=FLj3EXpr...

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#144

Post by shawndumas »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #138
shawndumas wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He already knows how to develop knowledge when confronted with his own lack of it you act like he hasn't already learned linux administration/networking/programming on his own

Learning to be a system administrator is a skill. I don't doubt for a moment he is skilled. It reads as if you have equated skill acquisition with knowledge acquisition, can you say more about what leads you to believe those are equivalent?

skills require knowledge; especially the kind of skill involved with the three separate disciplines (administration, networking, and programming) he has already demonstrably become proficient in.

if you don't think there is a metric ton of domain specific knowledge represented in what he's already doing then you may not be as familiar with the topics as you think you are or are not remembering what it took to attain that familiarity.

but i am also privy to other areas of knowledge aqusition that might identify this minor more than i fear i have already

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#145

Post by shawndumas »

elptacek wrote: post #141
shawndumas wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

without disagreeing with a thing you wrote, you're assuming that he even wants/needs to go to college

You make a good point. It was completely necessary for me, not at all for Tom. If this kid can position himself in such a way that he has access to the kind of resources that universities have without having to go to one... he should be quite happy.

having already had the meeting with his parents one of the biggest problems that was identified was that they had no objective means to evaluate his abilities.

it's like he was a piano prodigy and they were deaf... both of them were stunned to hear my assessment of his abilities and accomplishments. it was like they could suddenly hear.

it was very much an emotional and pivotal moment in the meeting. my wife was crying... and to be honest it was all i could do to not cry.

his skill set is only incidentally related to minecraft; he could make a living at any of the three major disciplines that he has demonstrable competence in. they were so sad that all this time they were missing out on how happy they could have been for him.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#146

Post by ChuckMcM »

shawndumas wrote: post #144
ChuckMcM wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to be a system administrator is a skill. I don't doubt for a moment he is skilled. It reads as if you have equated skill acquisition with knowledge acquisition, can you say more about what leads you to believe those are equivalent?

skills require knowledge; especially the kind of skill involved with the three separate disciplines (administration, networking, and programming) he has already demonstrably become proficient in. if you don't think there is a metric ton of domain specific knowledge represented in what he's already doing then you may not be as familiar with the topics as you think you are or are not remembering what it took to attain…

I think I have a pretty good idea about what it takes to run something similar to what our 15 year old has going on. I think where we might find we have different views is on what constitutes knowledge. Skills are acquired by learning and practicing all the 'how' questions around a topic, knowledge is acquired by learning all of the 'why' questions around a topic.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#147

Post by devonbarrett »

Hello,

I myself recently went through this decision process (although the company I had started at 15 was different) the situation was the same, and if you would like to discuss anything feel free to email me at devon[at]{hnusername}.net

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#148

Post by shawndumas »

devonbarrett wrote: post #147

Hello, I myself recently went through this decision process (although the company I had started at 15 was different) the situation was the same, and if you would like to discuss anything feel free to email me at devon[at]{hnusername}.net

thank you for putting yourself out there like that, very cool of you.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#149

Post by shawndumas »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #146
shawndumas wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

skills require knowledge; especially the kind of skill involved with the three separate disciplines (administration, networking, and programming) he has already demonstrably become proficient in. if you don't think there is a metric ton of domain specific knowledge represented in what he's already doing then you may not be as familiar with the topics as you think you are or are not remembering what it took to attain…

I think I have a pretty good idea about what it takes to run something similar to what our 15 year old has going on. I think where we might find we have different views is on what constitutes knowledge. Skills are acquired by learning and practicing all the 'how' questions around a topic, knowledge is acquired by learning all of the 'why' questions around a topic.

hmm... i personally need to understand the why before i have any ability to remember/understand/apply/execute the how.

i guess that's the difference between people that inherited knowledge (without any need of it) instead of having to arrive at it (because they were feeding themselves and their kids with it).

that kind of explains why, of the over 200 interviews i've conducted, some of the college educated "programmers" i came across seemed knowledgeable; until i made them write code that is.

thanks for solving that conundrum.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#150

Post by shawndumas »

shawndumas wrote: post #143
quasque wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I am unfamiliar with the state of the US education system, could you please explain what exactly are you referring to?

below is an example of what is done and what to do diff. this is about science but you can extrapolate to the other subjects. teachers like Tyler DeWitt are vastly underrepresented in the school system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVwWN0kjbms&list=FLj3EXpr...

also see this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/02/...
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