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The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

zacharyvoase.com

11–20 of 112 posts

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#11
This kind of hot-swapping can be achieved on quite a few languages; certainly Perl and Ruby in addition to JS, and I'm sure there's a dozen more languages that allow you to redefine at runtime. The difference is that Smalltalk made hot-editing the default.

SmallTalk is an uncommon language these days, with the exception of its half-descendant, Objective-C.

Ruby borrows Smalltalk's OO semantics pretty much completely. Just sayin'

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#12

Chris Granger's Light Table is also trying to do it. Of course, Bret Victor's talk breathed new life into this whole thing. But everything old is new again. People want to build software from a small kernel that scaffolds itself. They want to immediately switch between "testing the app" mode and "building the app" mode. They want something more than a text file, a tool pipeline, and an executable at the other end. On…

Exactly, I'd love more interactivity but you can pry my plain text source files from my cold dead hands. The smalltalk environment was way too magical and too easy to mess up when I tried it.

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#13
Check out Seaside, the Smalltalk web framework. It has a edit-in-the-browser mode, where you can pretty much edit anything to make your web app work. Seaside itself is a component-centric framework, not page-centric as most web frameworks are. You build independent components, which you place here and there to make your app.

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#14

Another approach to this type of thing worth checking out is Dan Ingall's Lively Kernel http://lively-kernel.org/

Great to see LK come up here. Yes, the approach of Lively goes towards what is mentioned in the article, right now however, the client session (what you run in the JS VM in your browser) is what the image is for Lively. We developed a persistence mechanism that will read/write a JS object graph so that your working state of your session can be saved and resumed, just like a Smalltalk image [1].

We are currently experimenting in distributing LK runtimes in nodejs instances so that basically a network of active runtimes can be created that communicate / exchange objects.

Note that the core development moved to github [2].

[1] http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/...

[2] https://github.com/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#15
post #11

This kind of hot-swapping can be achieved on quite a few languages; certainly Perl and Ruby in addition to JS, and I'm sure there's a dozen more languages that allow you to redefine at runtime. The difference is that Smalltalk made hot-editing the default. SmallTalk is an uncommon language these days, with the exception of its half-descendant, Objective-C. Ruby borrows Smalltalk's OO semantics pretty much completely.…

You can even do it in Java with Eclipse (Notch did it during his screencast), although I don't know the specifics.

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#16
post #13

Check out Seaside, the Smalltalk web framework. It has a edit-in-the-browser mode, where you can pretty much edit anything to make your web app work. Seaside itself is a component-centric framework, not page-centric as most web frameworks are. You build independent components, which you place here and there to make your app.

Clamato, also from Avi Bryant, is an interesting approach to in browser development: https://bitbucket.org/avibryant/clamato/wiki/Home

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#17
post #11

This kind of hot-swapping can be achieved on quite a few languages; certainly Perl and Ruby in addition to JS, and I'm sure there's a dozen more languages that allow you to redefine at runtime. The difference is that Smalltalk made hot-editing the default. SmallTalk is an uncommon language these days, with the exception of its half-descendant, Objective-C. Ruby borrows Smalltalk's OO semantics pretty much completely.…

"...I'm sure there's a dozen more languages that allow you to redefine at runtime"

Indeed. There are all the Lisp dialects to start with.

And it's no surprise that hence SmallTalk had this feature too: Alan Kay (+), one of the key creator of SmallTalk, acknowledged the heavy influence of Lisp on SmallTalk:

http://www.franz.com/services/conferences_seminars/lisp_50th...

(+) Famous quote attributed to Alan Kay: "I coined the term "object oriented". I can tell you I didn't have C++ in mind."

Re: The Web Is Becoming Smalltalk

#19
And this makes Cross-Site Scripting even more fun then it already is! We can't even make the browser limit sharing across websites securely: what makes you think that this edit mode will not be a target?
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