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Relax. You'll be more productive

nytimes.com

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Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#21

Post by johnjlocke »

viscanti wrote: post #16
crazygringo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. There is absolutely NO way to effectively measure programmer productivity. If there actually were an objetive way, then it would be a different story. But in the absence of it, a team has to "look" productive at least, and that means people in the office looking like they're working. Even if it means less real work getting done (because again, how do you measure that objetively? can't be done).

> There is absolutely NO way to effectively measure programmer productivity. One of the big reasons programmer productivity is so difficult to measure, is that you need to also see future productivity of everyone else who works on the code. If a programmer takes an extra week to build something more maintainable and that improved design saves months of future work, it's likely a productive use of time, but that's not…

Measuring programmer productivity, as in long-term impact, is much harder than measuring how many hours Programmer X sits at their desk or how many lines of code they can spit out in a day. Those are metrics that other programmers notice after maintaining code that previous programmers leave behind. It's always going to be a delayed reaction.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#22

Post by johnjlocke »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #4
thenomad wrote: post #2

Interesting stuff - and specifically, the numbers recommended are interesting. I've heard a 4-hour work day recommended in a few places. Personally, I tried working 4 hours a day some years ago, whilst dealing with a death in the family. I was startled at how close to my usual 8+hour workday my productivity was - indeed, I'm not sure, looking at output alone, you could have told my 4-hour period apart from my usual w…

I think societal pressures would prevent a 4 hour workday even if it was more productive for many classes of worker. A great many jobs are not fundamentally about productivity, for example a store checkout worker, a hotel receptionist and some IT operations work. In such cases the work is more about being available to cover certain hours and respond to various situations. For such jobs it would become a hassle to swa…

You're right, Jiggy. For a lot of jobs, it's about coverage and service, being able to fill the hole and be familiar with the situation. Training new people to be effective is more difficult than it seems in any job; four or five hours makes it even more difficult.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#23

Post by johnjlocke »

matdrewin wrote: post #6

Nice in theory but hard to put in practice in the more traditional 9-5 corporate environments.

The only reason to have 9 to 5 environments in our field is simply to have everyone communicating at the same time. An office can be anywhere for us, not just a leased office. This is a luxury that most workers will never know.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#24

Post by wpietri »

begurken wrote: post #5

This message is very well known and understood. The interesting question is 'why do foolish managers continue to treat their employers in poor ways that are known to decrease productivity?' In terms of productivity, it's a total lose-lose situation. I'm 37, and I'm pretty sure that I have worked out the answer. Most corporations are run by people (the managerial class) who are more interested in power than results. T…

> Most corporations are run by people (the managerial class) who are more interested in power than results.

This made me a lot angrier before I realized that this is just the primate dominance dynamic expressed in business organizational structure. It's the default human response to the circumstance, just like street gangs are the default response to different circumstances.

That has changed my attitude to "I hope these assholes get hit by a truck" to one of compassion to people whose wiring has gotten them trapped in a local maximum. There are no villains, only people who the system has trained to serve the system.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#25

Post by prodigal_erik »

anuy wrote: post #15
crazygringo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. There is absolutely NO way to effectively measure programmer productivity. If there actually were an objetive way, then it would be a different story. But in the absence of it, a team has to "look" productive at least, and that means people in the office looking like they're working. Even if it means less real work getting done (because again, how do you measure that objetively? can't be done).

i agree that working with breaks and socializing with colleagues for a coffee/a walk/ a fresh breath of air is good for productivity. however i do not agree with some posters who say that there are no metrics to measure productivity. there are ways to measure programmer productivity. not talking about lines added or features added. in general we can get a sense of how involved is a feature addition by looking at the…

That approach can set a sort of lower bound on how much work a feature requires, but judging productivity also involves measuring how often the program fails to meet its specification and how much work to modify it could have been avoided up front.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#26

Post by anthonyb »

Obligatory link to The Programmer's Stone, which was a real eye opener for me when I read it.

http://the-programmers-stone.com/the-original-talks/

It starts with Mapper vs. packer mentality, stress level mismatches, and the effect of stress on your brain, and goes forwards from there :)

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#27

Post by jchrisa »

Is it fair to repost a comment from the original article? That's what I've done here:

Who exactly do you think you are talking to? I work in a call center and had a meeting where if we didn't work more efficiently and faster we would be determined "burnt out" and let go. We're temps so the ax is over our heads at all times anyway and it only pays $12 an hour. Vacation, what a laugh.

If you had been talking to say decision makers about how workers are treated that would have been something. Instead, your article is about how decision makers should treat, wait for it, themselves, with no consideration of whom they supervise.

Workers have become treated like machines and have little choice. Your privileged point of view is out of focus on the lives of most Americans today.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#28

Post by jchrisa »

jchrisa wrote: post #27

Is it fair to repost a comment from the original article? That's what I've done here: Who exactly do you think you are talking to? I work in a call center and had a meeting where if we didn't work more efficiently and faster we would be determined "burnt out" and let go. We're temps so the ax is over our heads at all times anyway and it only pays $12 an hour. Vacation, what a laugh. If you had been talking to say dec…

Interesting distinction between worker and decision maker.

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#29

Post by matdrewin »

ihsw wrote: post #18
matdrewin wrote: post #6

Nice in theory but hard to put in practice in the more traditional 9-5 corporate environments.

Relaxation isn't a theory, it's a way of life. When you step outside of the insane and stressful mentality of having to kill yourself to make a good living in life then your life will improve immensely. There should be no reason at all for you to not take it easy for at least ten minutes a day.

First you talk about relaxation as a way of life and then you say that 10 minutes a day is all you need?

Am I missing something?

Re: Relax. You'll be more productive

#30

Post by cageface »

thenomad wrote: post #2

Interesting stuff - and specifically, the numbers recommended are interesting. I've heard a 4-hour work day recommended in a few places. Personally, I tried working 4 hours a day some years ago, whilst dealing with a death in the family. I was startled at how close to my usual 8+hour workday my productivity was - indeed, I'm not sure, looking at output alone, you could have told my 4-hour period apart from my usual w…

Five hours a day is about my limit for any kind of creative work. I can sit at a desk longer than that but nothing significant happens.
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