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German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

nytimes.com

71–80 of 91 posts

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#71
post #12

If someone chooses to spend several years of her life only in order to get a few letters in front of her name, that's her problem. Meanwhile, the rest of us can get out there and do something productive. Degree obsession is a choice.

Many PhD's I know didn't work on their research for the extra letters on their business cards, but out of a genuine devotion to further our knowledge on their research subjects.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#72
post #66
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first point basically matches mine - in a lot of other countries, it is an act of God. Only in central European countries is it considered to be the responsibility of the home owner. After all, if you don't have power over that sidewalk, why should you have responsibility over it? Unless, of course, it works out as best for the society... Germany has something like the absolute best set of bicycle lanes of any c…

In USA it is also your responsibility. No, it is not an act of GOD for the simple fact that the fall a lot of times is caused by a damaged sidewalk. Fixing up the sidewalk is always the owner's responsibility. At least that is the case in New York City.

Chicago too. And the landowner can also be be ticketed by the police for not clearing his snow.

It seems like the OP is from Scotland, where snow rarely falls and when it does, it doesn't stick around. I wonder if snow removal laws are more a matter of climate than culture.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#73
post #56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, lived in Hamburg for 3 years and lived in Berlin for 3 months. In fact, southern Germany is the part of the country that I know the least! ;-)

Weird. I've lived in Hamburg all my life and I've yet to see anybody be scorned for jaywalking. The same basically goes for family models, I've been to more homes where everyone just sort of does their own thing than I've been to homes where the family gathers round at a table and eats together, although that one definitely is also not a rarity. Is it elsewhere?

I got honked at several times in Hamburg for riding my bike in the street instead of the horrible sidewalk bike lane next to it. But I get that occasionally here in the US where the street is the lawful place for the bicyclist to be, so maybe it's more a matter of road rage than a Teutonic sense of order.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#74
post #59

This article seems to not mention another important fact for Schavan: If she loses the Doctorate, she will not have any degree whatsoever . The Doctorate is the only degree she ever did, she does not hold a Magister. (→ Grundständige Promotion) The English wikipedia entry has that added by now, however, it doesn't list any sources...so in that sense: http://www.heise.de/tp/blogs/8/153683 & http://www.wiwo.de/politik/…

She will still have a honorary doctorate of 4 universities, so technically she is still Dr.h.c.mult.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#75
post #7

"“I just think that many Germans have a police gene in their genetic makeup,”" Lol, discussion Godwin'ed by the OP itself - the NYT, no less.

Well, I'm living in Germany and I'm inclined to side with the NYT on this.

Oh I realize all too well - I lived and worked in Germany some time ago too, and only a few weeks into the job I was scolded for not putting dr and prof into the field on the signup page where people could enter how they wanted to be addressed. To be fair, the marketing guys were right on that one, me leaving it out was my youthful arrogance - the same disdain for honorifics that is being displayed in the article, actually.

Anyway, I wasn't so much saying that the article is wrong as that the snide tone of the remark came across as somewhat unbecoming of a purportedly 'serious' publication as the NYT.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#76
post #52
post #31

I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are never mentioned in daily work. Politicians on the other hand had always tried to give themselves some additinal credibility by bragging about their alleged academic merits, but searching for plagiatism was not something anyone would seriously had thought to enda…

Isn't the professional title on german ID cards?

Only a Ph.D./M.D. is, because it counts as part of your actual name.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#77
post #72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In USA it is also your responsibility. No, it is not an act of GOD for the simple fact that the fall a lot of times is caused by a damaged sidewalk. Fixing up the sidewalk is always the owner's responsibility. At least that is the case in New York City.

Chicago too. And the landowner can also be be ticketed by the police for not clearing his snow. It seems like the OP is from Scotland, where snow rarely falls and when it does, it doesn't stick around. I wonder if snow removal laws are more a matter of climate than culture.

Yeah as a Canadian, pretty much all cities can fine you if you don't clear your snow with in 24 hours. Ironically I just got back to Canada from Dresden yesterday and I didn't think much of the German efforts to clear their sidewalks.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#78

Germans place a greater premium on doctorates than Americans do as marks of distinction and erudition. [...] According to the Web site Research in Germany, about 25,000 Germans earn doctorates each year, the most in Europe and about twice the per capita rate of the United States. Visiting a university in Germany is almost free. More people having a "Diplom" degree means that if you want to stand out you have to aim f…

It makes me wonder why Berlin, in that case, is a relatively popular destination for American businesses when they want to set up shop in Europe. If the pervading attitude in Germany is as you've described, it seems as though Germany wouldn't be a good cultural fit.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#79

Germans place a greater premium on doctorates than Americans do as marks of distinction and erudition. [...] According to the Web site Research in Germany, about 25,000 Germans earn doctorates each year, the most in Europe and about twice the per capita rate of the United States. Visiting a university in Germany is almost free. More people having a "Diplom" degree means that if you want to stand out you have to aim f…

Do more Germans have Diplom degrees per capita than North Americans have undergraduate degrees? I was under the impression that more North Americans have undergraduate degrees than Germans Diploms, mainly because the Abitur is the bottleneck. In Canada now it seems everyone and their dog goes to university now.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#80
post #4

Ummmm Education Minister who (allegedly) cheated at university forced to step down. Don't really see that as a "Fascination With Degrees" Might have been a interesting topic, but it's a hopeless segue.

The former head of the Toronto District School Board Chris Spence recently had to resign after a spate of criticism over plagiarism in newspaper articles he had written for the local paper. Then plagiarism was found in his University of Toronto doctoral thesis. So it's just not a German thing. Maybe more interesting is how much easier it is now to find plagiarism.
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