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Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

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Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#101

Post by shantanubala »

InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #94
shantanubala wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say you can't -- I was simply adding to this: > That said, for most people the purpose of school is to prepare them to be able to support themselves and their families, and it sounds like he's basically able to do that now. The real question you have to ask is whether you can do both (impractical and practical) -- if you can do both, then it is clearly better than doing one. You may not realize it now, but a…

Funny you mention Quantum tunneling as I love delving into quantum mechanics and various inner topics such as tunneling. I also enjoy going into the philosophical elements of said quantum mechanics. Cool thing is, I do all that in my free time, not at school. I like to keep an open mind and use the information on the internet to broaden my knowledge.

Then you're on the right track :-)

Forget I even said anything.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#102

Post by SatvikBeri »

shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

Note that there are colleges that accept students from earlier years of High School. I dropped out of high school at age 15, spent two years at an early college called Simon's Rock[1], and then transferred to Berkeley.

I am not saying this is the best choice for you, but if you want to skip all the useless parts of high school, this is another option.

[1]: www.simons-rock.edu

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#104

Post by danielweber »

InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #73
shantanubala wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Neil Tyson does a beautiful job of explaining why basic education is important: There are people who say “I'll never need this math -- these trig identities from 10th grade or 11th grade.” Or maybe you never learned them. Here's the catch: whether or not you ever use the math that you learned in school, the act of having learned the math established a wiring in your brain that didn't exist before, and it's th…

Can I not learn "math" wiring from doing other activities that ACTUALLY benefit me, such as programming? The very act of owning a business and such is giving me the PRACTICAL knowledge while still building the wiring. It's win win.

that ACTUALLY benefit me, such as programming

You don't know what you don't know. You can have a fine career in programming without math -- but with math you can have many great careers.

Keep taking math and working hard at it. Stop when it gets too hard.

Two of my three favorite classes in college were math classes -- combinatorics and algorithms.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#105

Post by danielweber »

mtrimpe wrote: post #97
InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My teachers (with exceptions) are stubborn and unwilling to make such deals. It's also not only the after school assignments that I'm upset about, but the fact that I spent 8+ hours of my day in school with no ability to get any work done.

Have you considered that you might not have the social skills yet to make them willing to make such deals with you? I was in a very similar position as you and looking back what got me those breaks were the teachers that liked me, that liked what they saw in me and who wanted to support me. Everything I got, I was granted. Just like in real life.

Lots of schooling is built around making it easier to manage groups of kids. If this guy starts getting exceptions, the teacher is afraid that the next 10 kids in the class will also want exceptions, and pretty soon it's dogs sleeping with cats.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#106

Post by papacuppa »

mtrimpe wrote: post #16
shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

When talking with a friend of mine about me having dropped out of college because I was too bored, he once said: "If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff." I was pretty much this kid, or close to it, and to this day that statement is still one of the most valuable, harshest truths to me. So just challenge the kid to make it both work, run the company and finish high-school. I…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#107

Post by ChuckMcM »

shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

I'm reminded of the argument I heard from one kid that if eating junk food was "bad" it wouldn't satisfy their hunger and be so tasty.

The core of that argument, like this one, is that the fundamental assumptions about what the activity is providing are incorrect, and that leads to poor reasoning about the problem.

In my case the young man had made assumptions about signalling his body gave him with regard to being hungry or not as a signal of quality and/or acceptability. In the author's case the young man has conflated the value of education with the value of earning a living.

I agree with others here that if he is "that smart" he should be able to just finish up the high school curriculum and get that out of the way. I'd certainly consider home schooling him, since his business is so successful he should be able to hire himself an individual tutor, get the basics covered, get certified, and then get his degree. These folks typically deal with kids of movie stars or executives who are travelling a lot but they are out there.

If the kid is smart, and you want to reason with them, do it at the company level which he has so much of his identity invested in.

What is his gross margin? EIBTA? Net income? What are the strengths, weaknesse, opportunities, and threats for his business? What happens if Notch decides to cut off folks like him? What's the next step in his life? And the one after that. When he's dead what does his obituary say, "Man he ran the best Minecraft servers." ? He has shown that he can create a business, that is great, but does he have the stones to make bigger businesses? Or is he strictly small time, the 21st century equivalent of the guy who owns and runs the gas station on the corner his whole life? Who are his heroes? His anti-heroes?

Clearly he has had success in his goals, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know. The goal of an education is to give you the tools to attack the problem of developing knowledge when you are confronted with a lack and a need to know. Its artificial in the education system (do you really need to know about ancient history?) but the tools and techniques are widely applicable.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#108

Post by cpher »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #107
shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

I'm reminded of the argument I heard from one kid that if eating junk food was "bad" it wouldn't satisfy their hunger and be so tasty. The core of that argument, like this one, is that the fundamental assumptions about what the activity is providing are incorrect, and that leads to poor reasoning about the problem. In my case the young man had made assumptions about signalling his body gave him with regard to being h…

I think your last paragraph is most applicable. And I see this becoming a larger problem in the years ahead. What do I tell my now-5-year-olds when they're in high school? Is there a "low cost" way to marry the social/community aspect of college with the immediacy of online learning? At 40 yrs old now, my most valuable lessons from college are not specifics; rather, they're the general ability to reason/perform logic, work hard at a singular goal, and communicate effectively (in English). I'm left wondering if they all can't be done virtually.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#109

Post by cpher »

InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #72
jonsen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one thing he could gain from HS is the ability to write an argument. What does he actually want? I tend to agree with you.

The problem is Jonsen, I'm not exactly sure what I want. I don't 100% think that dropping out is the best option. What I want is some kind of reform, I want a system that works for me. Not a system that 'works' for everyone or keeps kids off the streets.

Your only option now is home schooling or private tutoring.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#110

Post by betterunix »

Dropping out is only acceptable if a student has a realistic plan for what to do afterwards. A drop-out who has no plan of action is a worthless bum.

If this kid has a plan -- say, to get a GED, go to a trade school, and secure a decent salary, then it may not be so bad. Equally viable is if the kid has an apprenticeship lined up, with the promise of a career afterwards. On the other hand, "I am bored with school so can't I just play Halo until I can find work as a janitor" is a useless plan that will lead to a miserable life.

Nothing is black-and-white. As Sun Tzu said,

"The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom."

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