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German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

nytimes.com

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Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#51

Post by esbwhat »

nagrom wrote: post #36
cnvogel wrote: post #31

I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are never mentioned in daily work. Politicians on the other hand had always tried to give themselves some additinal credibility by bragging about their alleged academic merits, but searching for plagiatism was not something anyone would seriously had thought to enda…

My own feeling is that Germans guard quite strongly their societal and cultural goods; advanced degrees are a status indicator and it's not a surprise that incorrectly-gained degrees cause outrage to me. Perceived pollution in the shared consciousness inevitably causes punishment and expulsion. Other ways in which Germans guard their societal structure: -- highly regulated Sunday opening hours, even in big cities, os…

my prediction about you: You have only ever been to south germany

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#52

Post by zby »

cnvogel wrote: post #31

I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are never mentioned in daily work. Politicians on the other hand had always tried to give themselves some additinal credibility by bragging about their alleged academic merits, but searching for plagiatism was not something anyone would seriously had thought to enda…

Isn't the professional title on german ID cards?

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#53

Post by nagrom »

esbwhat wrote: post #51
nagrom wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own feeling is that Germans guard quite strongly their societal and cultural goods; advanced degrees are a status indicator and it's not a surprise that incorrectly-gained degrees cause outrage to me. Perceived pollution in the shared consciousness inevitably causes punishment and expulsion. Other ways in which Germans guard their societal structure: -- highly regulated Sunday opening hours, even in big cities, os…

my prediction about you: You have only ever been to south germany

Nope, lived in Hamburg for 3 years and lived in Berlin for 3 months. In fact, southern Germany is the part of the country that I know the least! ;-)

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#54

Post by zura »

sek wrote: post #50
spdy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magister is Austria not Germany

No it does exist in Germany too, my mum has one.

It exists in Georgia as well, and it is equivalent of Masters degree.

Although, it is not used as title - maybe because it would sound much cooler than Dr. :)

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#56

Post by esbwhat »

nagrom wrote: post #53
esbwhat wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my prediction about you: You have only ever been to south germany

Nope, lived in Hamburg for 3 years and lived in Berlin for 3 months. In fact, southern Germany is the part of the country that I know the least! ;-)

Weird. I've lived in Hamburg all my life and I've yet to see anybody be scorned for jaywalking. The same basically goes for family models, I've been to more homes where everyone just sort of does their own thing than I've been to homes where the family gathers round at a table and eats together, although that one definitely is also not a rarity. Is it elsewhere?

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#58

Post by nagrom »

esbwhat wrote: post #56
nagrom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, lived in Hamburg for 3 years and lived in Berlin for 3 months. In fact, southern Germany is the part of the country that I know the least! ;-)

Weird. I've lived in Hamburg all my life and I've yet to see anybody be scorned for jaywalking. The same basically goes for family models, I've been to more homes where everyone just sort of does their own thing than I've been to homes where the family gathers round at a table and eats together, although that one definitely is also not a rarity. Is it elsewhere?

I once got shouted at by a man on Osdorfer Weg for crossing against the red man. I've also had that near U-Bahn Schlump and in Berlin, despite there having been no traffic in sight. Never anywhere else though.

I've found more strong family and friendship units in Germany than in the UK, Australia or the US. I've also found that people are less mobile within Germany than other places, perhaps in part due to the cost of changing accommodation - although that may be a European thing, as opposed to just a German thing.

Of course, these are all simple anecdotes and worth what you paid for them. My feelings about Germany are that it's a great country, and one I like very much. But it does have a very distinct character (similar to southern England in some senses!) and from that, the outrage about politicians faking academic titles is not a surprise.

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#59

Post by rmk2 »

This article seems to not mention another important fact for Schavan: If she loses the Doctorate, she will not have any degree whatsoever. The Doctorate is the only degree she ever did, she does not hold a Magister. (→ Grundständige Promotion)

The English wikipedia entry has that added by now, however, it doesn't list any sources...so in that sense:

http://www.heise.de/tp/blogs/8/153683 & http://www.wiwo.de/politik/deutschland/plagiatsaffaere-ohne-...

edit: Also, leave it to a right-wing Prof. Dr. from Munich to call all Germans crypto-fascist because of their degree fixation. Oh, the irony... → https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_Rhenania_Freiburg

Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

#60

Post by xyzzy123 »

ableal wrote: post #27
floppyspinner wrote: post #22

This whole discussion reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano. Sadly no such reference has been made yet. Maybe that's because not a lot of Germans have read it. Anyway, it sheds the whole discussion in a new light. The person in charge of education and research should not plagiarize, no doubt, but in general, if a person proves consistently that they can do their job, isn't the degree system that's supposed to de…

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_%28novel%29 , not part of the half dozen KV books I've read either ] I'd also guess it's not the ability to the the job that's in question, it's the will to do it ethically. Would you trust the work of someone who's known to cut corners in order to declare the job done?

Sure. Sometimes it beats the alternative.
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