Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

news.ycombinator.com

91–100 of 152 posts

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't know what 'temporal' means and doesn't write that well. He would benefit from more English instruction. There are many problems with how kids are taught in school. However, it's arrogant to think that you won't benefit from further instruction at 15 - regardless of how well you think you're doing. I've known many smart autodidacts, but they're often unaware of their weaknesses. They tend to be less 'well r…

I don't know what temporal means? It means that something is time sensitive I.E. my computer is temporal, because it will only exist in it's current working state for a certain period of time. And I would agree that I'm not the best writer, but are there not people who are far worse at constructing a proper sentence that have graduated high-school AND college? I don't think that I won't benefit from further instructi…

it's MORE beneficial to focus my efforts in more practical learning

No. Not because "practical learning" is bad - indeed, it's as great as you say - but because the "practical learning" that you can find for yourself is available forever. Especially if you're naturally good at it. At this point, or at any other point in your life, all you need is Ramen noodles, a cheap laptop, a solid Internet connection and a credit card.

Indeed, self-administered practical learning just gets easier with time, because you can move around and buy hardware and rent machine shops and own your own garage.

But there are things you can't easily replicate outside school, or that are a lot easier to enjoy if you have credentials and go through channels. My personal favorite example is: Science labs. Colleges have real science labs! Which are really fun for practical learning! And which you can use as a student. I mean, I won't go so far as to argue that you should spend twelve years doing a Ph.D. and a postdoc just to get your hands on the femtosecond-pulsed UV lasers, the bounteous supplies of liquid nitrogen, the fully-equipped biochemistry labs, the cell-culture hoods and incubators, the specially-bred laboratory mice, they mysterious bottles of colorful liquids, the nanotechnology laboratory, the electron microscopes, or the particle accelerators. But I did. And I don't regret any of that!

Yeah, I don't "use" my little pile of academic credentials at the moment. But there is more to life than just being "useful". Otherwise nobody would ever bother to, say, play Minecraft.

I can learn math all I want through doing complex programming and creation of algorithms...

So, are you one of those geniuses who has already aced the U.S. Mathematical Olympiad and then gotten bored with it? I have to ask, because such people exist, and if you are one I can't help you. But otherwise: Please tell me you've taken a serious high-school mathematics competition and been bored by it, because otherwise I'm not yet convinced that you know what you're missing. There is a lot of math that is not encompassed by "complex programming" or "creation of algorithms". A whole lot. More than I can understand. Not to mention the physics. Physics! In the hands of the right teacher, who is admittedly not easy to find, it's really a lot of fun.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#92

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

He doesn't know what 'temporal' means and doesn't write that well. He would benefit from more English instruction. There are many problems with how kids are taught in school. However, it's arrogant to think that you won't benefit from further instruction at 15 - regardless of how well you think you're doing. I've known many smart autodidacts, but they're often unaware of their weaknesses. They tend to be less 'well r…

He's using 'temporal' correctly; one of its connotations is 'temporary' or 'transitory'. See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/temporal

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what temporal means? It means that something is time sensitive I.E. my computer is temporal, because it will only exist in it's current working state for a certain period of time. And I would agree that I'm not the best writer, but are there not people who are far worse at constructing a proper sentence that have graduated high-school AND college? I don't think that I won't benefit from further instructi…

"Temporal" means either "relating directly to time" or, idiomatically, "relating to the affairs of life on this earth instead of the afterlife". You meant "transitory". Your situation is fascinating. You are simultaneously me (although substitute software exploit development for Minecraft hosting and subtract a lot of dollars) at Jesuit school in the '90s and, from what I can see coming, my son (now 13). Can I offer…

Thank you for your advice in regards to writing.

I'd also like to note that I currently can program well in the following languages: PHP, JavaScript, Java, C#, Python, Lua, etc... and I most certainly enjoy doing so.

Thank you for your input.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I not learn "math" wiring from doing other activities that ACTUALLY benefit me, such as programming? The very act of owning a business and such is giving me the PRACTICAL knowledge while still building the wiring. It's win win.

I didn't say you can't -- I was simply adding to this: > That said, for most people the purpose of school is to prepare them to be able to support themselves and their families, and it sounds like he's basically able to do that now. The real question you have to ask is whether you can do both (impractical and practical) -- if you can do both, then it is clearly better than doing one. You may not realize it now, but a…

Funny you mention Quantum tunneling as I love delving into quantum mechanics and various inner topics such as tunneling. I also enjoy going into the philosophical elements of said quantum mechanics. Cool thing is, I do all that in my free time, not at school. I like to keep an open mind and use the information on the internet to broaden my knowledge.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#95
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a true entrepreneur and a winner The problem is that he might be a lucky winner. As per the "once - you're lucky, twice - you're good" expression. He's on a roll now, but if it all collapses (350k split to 12 employees and running costs - that's not really something to write home about), what are the chances that he'd be able to recreate the success? I don't know. Nobody knows. He's effectively not hedging the risk…

You've made good points and it is something I'm worried about, however, I do think that as the other commented below this one pointed out. I'm a prime candidate for many other hosting companies and with a little work I can re-secure those "check-boxes"

You think that you are a prime candidate. In reality, you will need formal certifications and other checkboxes to get a job in a larger company, and you will find it difficult to find a smaller company with more relaxed hiring policies that is actually hiring (and offering what you want). The likelihood of you needing to hide the lack of basic formal education is very high.

Risk management is something that doesn't really correlate with being 15 year old. But you are at the point where you are about to discard conventional arrangements for advancing through life and try and do something very unique. The more unique it is, the higher the chances of it not working out (because otherwise everyone would've been doing it), so do not burn any bridges and do think through your plan B for the shittiest circuimstances moving forward (like the economy receeding, people not having money to pay for Minecraft servers, inflation eating up your profits, etc).

Lastly, on a more general note, the benefits of fundamental education are hard to distill in a concise form, but they are significant. Knowing how things work outside of the circle of your immediate interests, what people tried, explored and what mistakes they made... all this makes you a person who is smarter than the rest, and in the fastest way possible. You can, for example, re-invent calculus (and it's been done on more the one occassion), but that's highly inefficient way to go about it. Learning from others is the only way to get in a territory where you can truly innovate. But again if you don't see yourself ever desiring to do that, then it's hard to persuade you otherwise.

All in all - don't drop out. There's always another 350k to be earned, but there's no better time to absorb the knowledge than while you are young. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, don't waste it.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#96
post #40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking with a friend of mine about me having dropped out of college because I was too bored, he once said: "If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff." I was pretty much this kid, or close to it, and to this day that statement is still one of the most valuable, harshest truths to me. So just challenge the kid to make it both work, run the company and finish high-school. I…

> If the kid is this smart he can do way better than running some VPS hosting company in the long run. What's actually super interesting about the kid's comment is that while clearly written by a clever kid, he specifically never states that he is too smart for this, and that seems intentional. It seems very much that the kid recognizes that the system is flawed, and not that he is too extraordinary for the system, s…

Every system is flawed; the ones after high-school as well.

I'd suggest following hkmurakami's advice and figure out a way to bend the system to your will. It's a much more valuable lesson in the longrun.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some private high schools will give assignments that in totality, really do take many hours per day since they require lots of repetition and formula application, rather than say, a small number of very difficult prompts. In response, here are some "deals" that my friends cut with their teachers: Friend 1: Instead of doing ~50 easy/medium difficulty math problems per night, he would do 3 difficult ones instead from t…

My teachers (with exceptions) are stubborn and unwilling to make such deals. It's also not only the after school assignments that I'm upset about, but the fact that I spent 8+ hours of my day in school with no ability to get any work done.

Have you considered that you might not have the social skills yet to make them willing to make such deals with you?

I was in a very similar position as you and looking back what got me those breaks were the teachers that liked me, that liked what they saw in me and who wanted to support me.

Everything I got, I was granted. Just like in real life.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#98
The grammar and sentence structure of this letter indicate to me that this student could greatly benefit fm a little bit of humility. Sure the student is smart. Sure the student is wasting some time at school. I don't think this is entirely the school's fault. If the student had paid a little more attention, I would assume he would be able to construct more intelligible sentences.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#99
Dodging the question of "should he" ... I finished up a few high school credits by correspondence course (pre web) while working and still graduated from my actual high school. I could go as far as I wanted. There have to be online options available that he could work on at his own pace.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#100
I was profiting $1k/day in high school and still managed to finish (and do a good about job to get into a couple top tier universities). I had similar thoughts in high school and understand the predicament, but I know I absolutely made the right decision to stay in school.
Post reply on HN