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Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

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Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#71

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

Arelius wrote: post #40
mtrimpe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking with a friend of mine about me having dropped out of college because I was too bored, he once said: "If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff." I was pretty much this kid, or close to it, and to this day that statement is still one of the most valuable, harshest truths to me. So just challenge the kid to make it both work, run the company and finish high-school. I…

> If the kid is this smart he can do way better than running some VPS hosting company in the long run. What's actually super interesting about the kid's comment is that while clearly written by a clever kid, he specifically never states that he is too smart for this, and that seems intentional. It seems very much that the kid recognizes that the system is flawed, and not that he is too extraordinary for the system, s…

Exactly. I do not feel I am too smart for school, however, as you say, I feel that the system is flawed. And I don't want to waste my time on many things that I know will truly never help me in practical knowledge. However, there is still of course the connections and some vital information that school providers, but I don't think it's worth sitting out all the other useless information that wastes my time.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#72

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

jonsen wrote: post #7
shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

Well, one thing he could gain from HS is the ability to write an argument. What does he actually want? I tend to agree with you.

The problem is Jonsen, I'm not exactly sure what I want. I don't 100% think that dropping out is the best option. What I want is some kind of reform, I want a system that works for me. Not a system that 'works' for everyone or keeps kids off the streets.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#73

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

shantanubala wrote: post #51
ams6110 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he sounds like every 15 year old I know (including my own son) who is absolutely convinced that school is useless and a waste of time. That said, for most people the purpose of school is to prepare them to be able to support themselves and their families, and it sounds like he's basically able to do that now. School is something you can always come back to, but once you start into the family/kids part of your li…

I think Neil Tyson does a beautiful job of explaining why basic education is important: There are people who say “I'll never need this math -- these trig identities from 10th grade or 11th grade.” Or maybe you never learned them. Here's the catch: whether or not you ever use the math that you learned in school, the act of having learned the math established a wiring in your brain that didn't exist before, and it's th…

Can I not learn "math" wiring from doing other activities that ACTUALLY benefit me, such as programming? The very act of owning a business and such is giving me the PRACTICAL knowledge while still building the wiring. It's win win.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#74

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

demosthenes wrote: post #39
shawndumas wrote: post #2

Hello Mr. [Principal], I've heard through sources that there have been various meetings conducted regarding my recent and overall academic performance at [private school]. I'd like to put some stuff on the table and get your thoughts on a few issues if you would take the time to read this. As background information I'd like you to know that I am the owner, CEO, and CTO of [hosting company], LLC a large Minecraft host…

He doesn't know what 'temporal' means and doesn't write that well. He would benefit from more English instruction. There are many problems with how kids are taught in school. However, it's arrogant to think that you won't benefit from further instruction at 15 - regardless of how well you think you're doing. I've known many smart autodidacts, but they're often unaware of their weaknesses. They tend to be less 'well r…

I don't know what temporal means? It means that something is time sensitive I.E. my computer is temporal, because it will only exist in it's current working state for a certain period of time.

And I would agree that I'm not the best writer, but are there not people who are far worse at constructing a proper sentence that have graduated high-school AND college?

I don't think that I won't benefit from further instruction. What I'm saying is it's MORE beneficial to focus my efforts in more practical learning. I WANT to learn, but I don't want to learn stuff that will waste my time. I have nothing wrong with the subject, the problem is that we're not seeing how to apply it. I can learn math all I want through doing complex programming and creation of algorithms, however, sitting in class isn't getting me the same practical knowledge that that would.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#75

Post by shantanubala »

InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #73
shantanubala wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Neil Tyson does a beautiful job of explaining why basic education is important: There are people who say “I'll never need this math -- these trig identities from 10th grade or 11th grade.” Or maybe you never learned them. Here's the catch: whether or not you ever use the math that you learned in school, the act of having learned the math established a wiring in your brain that didn't exist before, and it's th…

Can I not learn "math" wiring from doing other activities that ACTUALLY benefit me, such as programming? The very act of owning a business and such is giving me the PRACTICAL knowledge while still building the wiring. It's win win.

I didn't say you can't -- I was simply adding to this:

> That said, for most people the purpose of school is to prepare them to be able to support themselves and their families, and it sounds like he's basically able to do that now.

The real question you have to ask is whether you can do both (impractical and practical) -- if you can do both, then it is clearly better than doing one.

You may not realize it now, but a lot of things that seem impractical can become very useful (or at the very least, fascinating) when provided with the right context. For example, if you ever want to learn about how your computer works on the inside, knowing basic physics will give you better perspective on what's happening. More obscure stuff like Quantum Tunneling starts appearing in technologies like NAND flash memory -- it's not necessarily practical to know all that, but I'm very happy that I know it.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#76

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

mattbee wrote: post #36

Wow. It's definitely a goofy, pompous, rambling letter written by someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know yet. But assuming the business is profitable, there's zero chance that you or his parents can stop him from pursuing it at this point. I think this 15-year old's decision is made, and the point to intervene might have been when he started employing people. I wasn't particularly academic, but wasn't driven /…

I'm not trying to be stubborn. I WANT to see how the school system can benefit me. I WANT something custom tailored to help me. I WANT to learn, but right now I'm not seeing that. I WANT someone to show me HOW the knowledge and skills I'm getting at school are MORE beneficial than the knowledge and skills I'm gaining at home applying to my business.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#77

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

danielweber wrote: post #67
chacham15 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the letter twice. The first time naturally, and the second time from the viewpoint of a parent to try and compensate for my natural bias. It would appear to me that your natural bias lies on the other side. Try to reread the letter from the point of view of a kid who is making $350,000 a year (I realize that he personally isn't pocketing the money, but he is responsible for it). I feel like you are too quickly…

I'd say to the parents: definitely let him keep on managing this company. Running something with that much revenue is a big thing for a kid to be doing. I'd love it if my kid was doing that. I'd say to the kid: don't give up on school. There are lots of ways to continue formal education besides your current high school. Find something that works (see many ideas on this thread), part time if necessary, and do it. Yes,…

I appreciate the comment and agree with it. I have addressed the first matter you spoke of in some of my various other comments. In addition as you stated, I can return to "high-school" or other higher education if [my hosting company] failed.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#78

Post by shantanubala »

victorhn wrote: post #63
shantanubala wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Neil Tyson does a beautiful job of explaining why basic education is important: There are people who say “I'll never need this math -- these trig identities from 10th grade or 11th grade.” Or maybe you never learned them. Here's the catch: whether or not you ever use the math that you learned in school, the act of having learned the math established a wiring in your brain that didn't exist before, and it's th…

He is succesfully managing a Minecraft hosting company. I don't think he is lacking in the problem solving skill.

Yes and no -- learning calculus (which is offered in many high schools) or advanced physics (he's in a private high school, so I'm assuming their classes and lab activities are well-funded) is still different. The real question in all this: is this a false dilemma? Is it really impossible for him to pursue both?

If possible, learning physics and managing a Minecraft hosting company is clearly better than just the latter.

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#79

Post by InfiniteLoopx64 »

eps wrote: post #53
il wrote: post #14

He founded a startup with $350K in revenue and his parents will be disappointed? Really? This guy is not your typical at-risk high school dropout. He's clearly a true entrepreneur and a winner. At this point, he can pretty much write his own ticket in life. He doesn't need the arbitrary rules and stifling structure of high school to be successful. His parents grew up in a very different world, and they need to unders…

> a true entrepreneur and a winner The problem is that he might be a lucky winner. As per the "once - you're lucky, twice - you're good" expression. He's on a roll now, but if it all collapses (350k split to 12 employees and running costs - that's not really something to write home about), what are the chances that he'd be able to recreate the success? I don't know. Nobody knows. He's effectively not hedging the risk…

You've made good points and it is something I'm worried about, however, I do think that as the other commented below this one pointed out. I'm a prime candidate for many other hosting companies and with a little work I can re-secure those "check-boxes"

Re: Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been asked to intervene

#80

Post by [deleted] »

InfiniteLoopx64 wrote: post #74
demosthenes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't know what 'temporal' means and doesn't write that well. He would benefit from more English instruction. There are many problems with how kids are taught in school. However, it's arrogant to think that you won't benefit from further instruction at 15 - regardless of how well you think you're doing. I've known many smart autodidacts, but they're often unaware of their weaknesses. They tend to be less 'well r…

I don't know what temporal means? It means that something is time sensitive I.E. my computer is temporal, because it will only exist in it's current working state for a certain period of time. And I would agree that I'm not the best writer, but are there not people who are far worse at constructing a proper sentence that have graduated high-school AND college? I don't think that I won't benefit from further instructi…

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