Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars • Hacker News Board

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#81

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:09 PM UTC

confluence wrote: post #41

vectorpush wrote: post #13

The human brain is a remarkable pattern recognition machine with a keen penchant for extracting meaning from noise. This, of course, will turn out to be nothing more than an unremarkable optical illusion; an urban legend is born.

This is called Pareidolia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia ). > Pareidolia ... is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant.

When you're driving in a snow storm (sometimes unavoidable) one of the hardest things is to maintain a feeling of heading and not to respond to every impulse when your brain thinks it has made meaning out of the falling snow just ahead of the car. And even harder to realize when it actually has picked up something of significance.

I got caught in snow storms several times and what surprised me was how much physical effort it takes to do this for any length of time.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#82

Post by waterlesscloud » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:30 PM UTC

As a reminder, if a human explorer had seen this, we'd already know much, much more about it. They'd naturally take a few steps over for a closer look as soon as they saw it.

Robots are a poor substitute for humans when it comes to planetary exploration.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#83

Post by chii » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:32 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #74

mark_integerdsv wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend toward a similar pessimism. Hawking has said that we need only look at the history of inter-species relationships on our planet (let alone race relationships) to get a hint of what exopolitics might look like. He goes on to mention that in terms of the search for alien life, we'd do best to keep our heads low.

History up until... when? The last 60 years has seen considerable advances in inter-race politics, and it's improving all the time. Why wouldn't exopolitics be an advanced form of this?

except of course, when the "advanced" species wants something that the "lower" species has. What if liquid water is a rarity, and the earth happens to have a lot of it?

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#84

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:38 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #82

As a reminder, if a human explorer had seen this, we'd already know much, much more about it. They'd naturally take a few steps over for a closer look as soon as they saw it. Robots are a poor substitute for humans when it comes to planetary exploration.

Well, exactly because humans are not replaceable.

Nobody cares that Curiosity is not going back to earth. For an astronaut, that's different

Not to mention all the instruments in Curiosity (which not necessarily a manned mission to Mars with the intention of coming back would have)

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#85

Post by cincinnatus » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:40 PM UTC

interconnector wrote: post #19

If the object really is 0.5 cm tall, it could be similar to this calcium vein in a rock which is comparable in size: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/?ImageID=5017

Yep, it has a distinctly 'mineral vein' appearance to it.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#86

Post by hdivider » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 1:57 PM UTC

brianchu wrote: post #70

hdivider wrote: post #6

I'm certainly not an expert on this, but I'd say the most important number to think about when looking at rover images is the scale . "the little protuberance is probably about 0.5 cm tall, or even smaller." Five mm is obviously tiny. Keep this in mind before making up hypotheses as to what the thing is. =) We have to wait until better data is available. What's fascinating in itself though is that no person, however…

Not to nitpick, but the fact that we can't rule out that possibility is nothing special. You cannot rule out the possibility that when you drop a ball it won't fall to the ground. Empirical reasoning does not operate in absolutes. Only inductive reasoning operates that way.

"Empirical reasoning does not operate in absolutes."

Precisely, and so 'rule out' shouldn't be taken to imply an absolute ruling out of things. =)

Perhaps I should've said effectively ruled out. Life on the Moon has been 'effectively' ruled out (lack of liquid water, no atmosphere, full exposure to radiation and impactors, etc.) - but many years ago it wasn't extremely unreasonable to suppose that life might exist there. Now we know better - we'd have to reach for very convoluted scenarios to argue for the existence of life on the Moon. The same is not true for Mars (although it's not a picnic, obviously), which I would say is remarkable - there aren't many celestial bodies that have passed that test.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#87

Post by joshuacc » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:06 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #43

stevewilhelm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect finding evidence of other lifeforms in the universe, even highly intelligent lifeforms, would briefly be novel, but would have very little long-term effect on most people's daily lives.

Many people's religion has a huge effect on their daily lives, and news like this would have a huge impact on their faith. Also, the information we exchange with them would have a huge impact on everything. What if they have the secret to efficient solar power? Or AI?

> news like this would have a huge impact on their faith.

Not necessarily. Non-believers often underestimate the intellectual sophistication that one can find in religious traditions.

For instance, Augustine in the 4th century was already saying things like this:

"With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures."

And C.S. Lewis (best known as a Christian apologist) wrote some interesting religious science fiction novels with extraterrestrial angels. (The Space Trilogy.)

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#88

Post by joshuacc » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:08 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #75

wubbfindel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious tradition and dogma changes yes, but their "holy" books can't rewrite themselves. Interestingly the bible doesn't make any comment to suggest there is no other life in the universe. In fact it does refer to extra terrestrial life; God sent "angels", literally translated "messengers", to the earth.

The holy books aren't like a country's constitution. They're all 'interpreted'. "What this passage means is...".

To be fair, a country's constitution must also be interpreted. That's why things like Supreme Court rulings are so important. The SC gets to decide, "What this amendment means is..."

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#89

Post by rsheridan6 » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:12 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #74

mark_integerdsv wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend toward a similar pessimism. Hawking has said that we need only look at the history of inter-species relationships on our planet (let alone race relationships) to get a hint of what exopolitics might look like. He goes on to mention that in terms of the search for alien life, we'd do best to keep our heads low.

History up until... when? The last 60 years has seen considerable advances in inter-race politics, and it's improving all the time. Why wouldn't exopolitics be an advanced form of this?

Sixty years is not a long time, and there's no reason to believe that this trend will continue forever.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#90

Post by rsheridan6 » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:15 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #63

rsheridan6 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. If aliens exist and are able to travel to our vicinity, we're probably screwed as a species.

I love (sarcasm) how a supposedly technologically superior and enlightened species of non-earth intelligent beings would only be out to destroy or punish us, according to science fiction and a lot of people.

They might not be out to destroy or punish us. They might take no more interest in us than we took in thousands of species that have been destroyed to make way for farms and shopping malls. Maybe our planet would make a good Vogon parking lot.