Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway • Hacker News Board

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#11

Post by zdgman » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:02 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #9

zdgman wrote: post #6

It seems like the charge right before he stalled was the issue. I know he wasn't at a super charging station but he probably should have spent a couple of hours re-charging it instead of an hour. Cold weather and running something that is power intensive (the heater) will drastically effect your mileage if you are relying on a battery to power your car. Tesla probably should do a better job of communicating this but…

If the battery meter can't cope with typical American temperature ranges yet it being sold in these areas, yeah, it's a flaw. If it says 100 miles left and after 10 miles now tells you 50, yeah, it's a flaw. Can the flaw be corrected? Maybe, maybe not. But it's still a flaw.

I wouldn't call this a flaw, it happens to batteries when they are exposed to temperatures like this. The gauge for the battery is accurately trying to show you your usage in real-time.

I bet he probably could have gauged it by jumping in the car turning it on and then starting the heater as well. His mileage would have declined before he even started driving.

Think of it this way, batteries always improve in 2nd / 3rd gen devices (look at apple) and I am sure that is what Tesla will start to address.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#12

Post by pbreit » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:02 AM UTC

saulrh wrote: post #7

This blog post states the obvious: early adopters better know what they're in for and what they're doing. The author isn't an experienced early adopter and doesn't know what they're doing, and rightly concludes that the technology isn't ready for universal mainstream use. Unfortunately, the article entirely fails to address the point and is aimed squarely at an audience that won't get it either. It will be used as am…

The article seemed totally fair to me. I'm not sure how you can conclude that the author is not an experienced early adopter and am also not sure how relevant that is when discussing a new automobile on the market. What was mis-represented? How is the article irresponsible?

nb: I am a huge Tesla fan.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#13

Post by ngvrnd » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:09 AM UTC

Well, that could have gone better.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#14

Post by peteforde » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:11 AM UTC

As a fan of Tesla's efforts, it pains me to read this; no matter where the blame lies (physics, bad planning, poorly tested diagnostics software) this article will haunt the company for years. Every oil lobbyist will eat this up, and it should become the foundation of any EV-haters argument.

And that sucks.

However, I'm annoyed that Tesla's UX people let a car with this much design intelligence leave without connecting range estimations to a simple thermometer.

I understand that to HN readers batteries in the cold is "simple physics" but if the battery indicator jumps around like a BitTorrent download time estimation, people will quickly learn to not trust what the car tells them.

Consumers that are highly neurotic about the road trip problem are much more likely to remember these sorts of horror stories when making a purchasing decision.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#15

Post by alexqgb » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:13 AM UTC

zdgman wrote: post #11

freehunter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the battery meter can't cope with typical American temperature ranges yet it being sold in these areas, yeah, it's a flaw. If it says 100 miles left and after 10 miles now tells you 50, yeah, it's a flaw. Can the flaw be corrected? Maybe, maybe not. But it's still a flaw.

I wouldn't call this a flaw, it happens to batteries when they are exposed to temperatures like this. The gauge for the battery is accurately trying to show you your usage in real-time. I bet he probably could have gauged it by jumping in the car turning it on and then starting the heater as well. His mileage would have declined before he even started driving. Think of it this way, batteries always improve in 2nd / 3…

The flaw (and it is a very major flaw) is in the reporting system, which is unable to give drivers planning their drives reliable information with which to plan their drives. That is flawed almost by definition. The reasons why are utterly irrelevant. A flawed fuel reading is a fundemental flaw in a product that is essentially useless without fuel.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#16

Post by nlh » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:14 AM UTC

So I run a luxury car rental company and one of the most common questions I get from folks these days (especially those in the tech community) is: "When are you guys getting a Tesla?"

This article is _exactly_ why we're not getting one for the fleet anytime soon, and it's basically the answer I've been giving people since the Roadster came out (and the questions started).

Tesla is an awesome, awesome company. I'm a fan. I'm thinking of getting a Model S for myself. I think (and hope) they're going to be huge.

But they're not ready for the truly mass-market quite yet - and car rental customer (even luxury car rental customers) are the mass market.

I could see the exact scenario outlined in the article happening to renters constantly - except for one difference: We would be yelled at by the customers, not Tesla ;) ("Why is my car saying 'battery dead'? I did nothing wrong. Send a truck to pick me up or I'm writing a bad review about you guys.") Sigh.

Anyway, I'm still a fan despite the headaches - and I know they'll grow out of it.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#17

Post by michael_miller » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:14 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #4

My friends think I'm dowdy. Until recent years, I was very conservative about estimates. Every "event" in a trip adds 5 minutes, no matter how "nothing" it seems. I was often too early, but never late. A Tesla S with the 260 mile battery, I would treat like a car with 130 miles range. Plenty for an around town commuter and errand vehicle. A Leaf, I would treat like a 50 mile range car. Also, why don't those things co…

Knowing nothing about heaters, I'm curious: why does electric heat make no sense? My intuition would be that an electric heater would require far fewer components (especially considering the battery is already in place), be less dangerous, and require less maintenance. What is the relative efficiency of electric heaters to propane heaters?

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#18

Post by danielweber » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:17 AM UTC

I used to be excited about electric cars, but lately I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to use the power source to manufacture fossil fuels using an environmental source of carbon and ship that to customers. That would make the fuel carbon neutral.

Because the world understands completely how to store and handle and deal with liquid fossil fuels.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#19

Post by revelation » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:23 AM UTC

If you're staying somewhere, plug it in. Even a 110V will be able to keep the battery warm enough to avoid these losses.

No, its not perfect. Neither is the choke on your motorcycle or the people in siberia waking up every 2 hours to start their combustion engines because blowing up what was generated in thousands of years refuses to happen in a cold engine block.

But I guess everyone with a modicum of knowledge has by now realized that a) we can't keep blowing up that stuff and b) there won't be another magic energy material like oil, ever again.

Re: Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway

#20

Post by saulrh » Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 2:27 AM UTC

malloreon wrote: post #10

saulrh wrote: post #7

This blog post states the obvious: early adopters better know what they're in for and what they're doing. The author isn't an experienced early adopter and doesn't know what they're doing, and rightly concludes that the technology isn't ready for universal mainstream use. Unfortunately, the article entirely fails to address the point and is aimed squarely at an audience that won't get it either. It will be used as am…

Replace him with "an experienced early adopter." How would the article be different? Would he have been able to get where he wanted to go, or would he have not tried to go as far as the car said he could go?

He wouldn't have tried running the vehicle to the edges of its optimal-condition performance in non-optimal conditions. Or he would have been expecting trouble and reacted early enough to avoid being towed. Or, most of all, he would have emphasized in his writing that his experience is unusual and that the article will be obsolete in a year. An average consumer with one of these cars will be able to draw on years of wisdom and infrastructure that the early-adopters had to develop for them.