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Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

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Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#71

Post by thevillain9 »

lss456 wrote: post #23
frozenport wrote: post #12

I like ______________________, but have found that I’m not very good at it professionally, should I get an MBA? I think this is why MBAs are increasingly seen as worthless

As a programmer who has gone the MBA route (will be done in the Fall), I have to say it's been positive for me. Not because I can point to it on my resume and say "look what I have!" or "look what I'm getting!", it's been positive for the following reasons: a) It's increased my ability to communicate clearly in small and large groups. b) It's given me great context regarding where IT and programming stand in the over…

On a side note, I'm applying for my MBA. Usually on our resumes we list our programming skills at the top, because its what represents us quickly.

Should I leave it there, move down, or remove it completely? How else did you tailor your resume for your application?

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#72

Post by mendicant »

ahoyhere wrote: post #68
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Nobody took the power from you, you gave it away. There was no defeat because there was no battle. I've never had to endure any of those things because when they arose, I quit the job. And when they arose again in the next job, I quit employment, and contracted. And when (different) problems appeared with clients, I quit consulting forever and built a hugely revenue-positive product business where I am the reigning m…

I have to agree. Two things have happened here to make me see it:

- Taking on a role with more responsibility, leadership requirements and business knowledge

- Starting my own business where I get to make decisions (with my co-founder)

I see how many times as as developer I've either not cared about decisions that directly affect me. Or maybe I've just rolled over and accepted the things I don't like. It's the nature of (most) developers. Don't stir the pot. Don't dissent. Just get in and get my work done.

Here's the reality. Knowing more about your business makes you a better developer. Knowing how to say no and stand up for yourself makes you a better developer. Knowing how to talk and communicate with your users, your bosses, your co-workers (or anyone really), makes you a better developer (and will improve your work life). Being a strong technical person with strong Business, Marketing or Personal Communication skills makes you unstoppable. This applies to more than technical folk. The more you do - The better you are. Take this advice you might find that the skill you thought you were bad at, or hated, or avoided is actually very rewarding - Difficult, but rewarding.

And finally, to Amy: Thank you for all the work you do on showing people the power that they have. I started a business 5 years ago and have had to sit through the whole "YOU NEED TO GET FUNDED" and "YOU NEED TO GET BOUGHT" that seems so prevalent in the startup ecosystem. Me and my partner did everything ourselves. And now we own a business that makes decent money that goes DIRECTLY TO US.

But when you're overexposed to the opposite line of thinking, it's really easy to get caught up in the "am I doing this wrong?" and questioning yourself. You are one of the few people who puts an emphasis on growing and trusting YOURSELF. I'm very on board with most the things I hear you say because they are the very values that I have held in high esteem, yet was still questioning. So thank you for that.

ps. I also think that 'ahoythere' would've been an awesome username.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#73

Post by jstelly »

mattmanser wrote: post #25
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

I'm not really sure this is anything to do with programming at all. As far as I've seen all industries suffer from this. You have a lot of people who if given control over their own work would make things a lot better. But good management is very hard and often the business need just isn't there. There's things to be done and experimentation is seen as a waste. I also think we can be a bit dewey eyed about 'great' pr…

"most of programming isn't great. It's nasty, it's boring..."

I get what you are saying, but I don't agree. When I am working on code that I know a bunch of people will use and enjoy, I don't really find the edge cases or testing nasty or boring at all.

Or to put it another way: at first I loved programming because it was full of interesting problems for me to learn how to solve. Later I loved programming because other people were using my software and finding it valuable. This shift away from yourself as the end product of programming is essential in my opinion to enjoying programming in the long term, and also much more highly correlated with commercial success. You also have to find a company (or create one) where you can directly do that. A hint - if you often think the code you are writing is pointless or a waste of time you are not there yet.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#74

Post by lhnz »

michaelochurch wrote: post #63
lhnz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We need to take control of this game. We need to take it back and make it good-- and fast. I have been thinking along these lines as well but I am unsure on what can be done. The real problem here is that our profession contains many shy, socially-awkward types, and guys and girls that were bullied when they were school and haven't fully recovered. Many don't understand how status is conveyed or are in complete de…

I am interested. I'm pretty sure my largest contribution to software to date has nothing to do with code. I named something: open allocation . Now we've defined terms and we have a banner. My goal with that-- and it's too early to know if I've succeeded-- is to wake people up and realize that their current, micromanaged state of closed allocation is inferior to something that's possible. We will see an increasing pro…

One thing though, is there evidence that it leads to a better working culture and perhaps stronger business? Or is the proof still to come out?

I love the idea of open-allocation but I worry that at companies in which people drag their heels, avoid learning and other bad things that it could be harmful. I also wonder whether there are people will not be business minded or innovative enough to do worthwhile work. Obviously scratching personal-itches sometimes leads to great products but we might all just play out our neurosis and then through commitment and cognitive dissonance chase ourselves down rabbit holes. Maybe my fear is completely unjustified...

Anyway, my idea for an action is the creation of some kind of check-list for a humanity-ready™ company sort of like the Joel Test. Perhaps I or another could create a GitHub repository and a website to get this rolling. What is important, I think, is to get people to talk about what they consider the qualities of a great company to be and what principles and practices would this company hold. Buy-in and conversation would help the memetic process.

The next-step after that, once people were on-board would be to create some kind of rating system and then perhaps to reach out to recruitment companies and see if they would add a feature for companies to mark themselves on their adherence to some of the best practices. Sort of like how the Joel Test is used on some recruitment sites...

Actually I'm still not really sure whether this would work because life is never that simple and I am sure things will more or less play out in this direction anyway. Certainly conversation on the ideas is worthwhile, however.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#75

Post by ahoyhere »

mendicant wrote: post #72
ahoyhere wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody took the power from you, you gave it away. There was no defeat because there was no battle. I've never had to endure any of those things because when they arose, I quit the job. And when they arose again in the next job, I quit employment, and contracted. And when (different) problems appeared with clients, I quit consulting forever and built a hugely revenue-positive product business where I am the reigning m…

I have to agree. Two things have happened here to make me see it: - Taking on a role with more responsibility, leadership requirements and business knowledge - Starting my own business where I get to make decisions (with my co-founder) I see how many times as as developer I've either not cared about decisions that directly affect me. Or maybe I've just rolled over and accepted the things I don't like. It's the nature…

"I see how many times as as developer I've either not cared about decisions that directly affect me. Or maybe I've just rolled over and accepted the things I don't like. It's the nature of (most) developers. Don't stir the pot. Don't dissent. Just get in and get my work done."

Exactly. If you live with the attitude of a cog, you'll be treated (and paid!) like a cog. You get what you ask for.

And, thanks for the "thanks." You're welcome. It's always nice to hear that I'm not just pissing into the wind.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#76

Post by rthomas6 »

Scotchy wrote: post #64
rthomas6 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to this is testing and required design procedure. Comprehensive, detailed, expensive testing, and comprehensive, detailed, and expensive design documentation and documented procedure. There are currently guidelines for software that goes on medical equipment and airplanes. Airplane software's testing and design procedure gets checked by the FAA. I also know there are comprehensive code coverage requireme…

What you just described is, put simply, to follow engineering principles. Some people would argue that Software Development is not an engineering discipline but a craftsmanship. And anyways, it would still be a huge scandal if the FAA allowed someone, (or a team of someones) without a degree in CS, to check an airplaine's software. Does this need to be regulated as a law, and thus, recognition of the Software Develop…

The way I understand it, the FAA checks to see if the software design was designed and tested according to documented procedure, which was approved beforehand. The procedure must follow some published guidelines, mainly [DO-178B](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B). The FAA person probably doesn't need a CS degree to check this. They just need to be competent enough to review the documents generated during the DO-178B process, and see that they did what they said they did. The civil liability I think would come in if a company forged their documentation. And if the documentation is not good, then the software won't get approved by the FAA audit. At least that's how it's supposed to work.

Edit: There are third party or FAA technical experts involved, so I guess your point still stands. But I don't think certification can replace this kind of following engineering procedure. And yes, I consider software engineering for safety-critical applications an engineering discipline.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#77

Post by michaelochurch »

lhnz wrote: post #74
michaelochurch wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am interested. I'm pretty sure my largest contribution to software to date has nothing to do with code. I named something: open allocation . Now we've defined terms and we have a banner. My goal with that-- and it's too early to know if I've succeeded-- is to wake people up and realize that their current, micromanaged state of closed allocation is inferior to something that's possible. We will see an increasing pro…

One thing though, is there evidence that it leads to a better working culture and perhaps stronger business? Or is the proof still to come out? I love the idea of open-allocation but I worry that at companies in which people drag their heels, avoid learning and other bad things that it could be harmful. I also wonder whether there are people will not be business minded or innovative enough to do worthwhile work. Obvi…

One thing though, is there evidence that it leads to a better working culture and perhaps stronger business? Or is the proof still to come out?

Valve is at 300 people and enormously successful. It has higher revenue per employee than Google, Apple, or Microsoft.

I love the idea of open-allocation but I worry that at companies in which people drag their heels, avoid learning and other bad things that it could be harmful.

My guess is that it's these corrupt, closed-allocation, intensely political companies that generate this kind of behavior.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#79

Post by turboquant »

ahoyhere wrote: post #68
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Nobody took the power from you, you gave it away. There was no defeat because there was no battle. I've never had to endure any of those things because when they arose, I quit the job. And when they arose again in the next job, I quit employment, and contracted. And when (different) problems appeared with clients, I quit consulting forever and built a hugely revenue-positive product business where I am the reigning m…

"The bottom line is that a person who wants to remain ignorant of the money-making side of business will never hold power. Employment is the opposite of freedom."

The truth will set you free indeed.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#80

Post by yuhong »

michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Yea, the FSF actually considers the term a misnomer: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#SoftwareIn...
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