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Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

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Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#61
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those licenses are not to protect the Doctors/Lawyers, they are to protect their clients. Having such a system for programmers would make no since and would make the situation much worse. A college degree means a lot but you can be a very good/success programmer without one. I would NEVER go to a doctor/lawyer who did not have the correct credentials to practice. As such you "practice" medicine and you "practice" law…

Altough I agree with you, I still definitely think we are heading towards a future where in order for your code to ship, you will need to be a certified programmer, or have it validated by a certified programmer, at least in some industries. Do you think it is safe, for say, a non certified (read: a guy with no CS degree) programmer to design and code software that runs on an MRI machine ? Or the one which controls a…

The solution to this is testing and required design procedure. Comprehensive, detailed, expensive testing, and comprehensive, detailed, and expensive design documentation and documented procedure.

There are currently guidelines for software that goes on medical equipment and airplanes. Airplane software's testing and design procedure gets checked by the FAA. I also know there are comprehensive code coverage requirements. Replacing this with certified programmers means that the programmer WILL be personally liable if there is a fault in the design. I don't think this is a good idea.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#62

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

>> We need to take control of this game. We need to take it back and make it good-- and fast.

I have been thinking along these lines as well but I am unsure on what can be done.

The real problem here is that our profession contains many shy, socially-awkward types, and guys and girls that were bullied when they were school and haven't fully recovered. Many don't understand how status is conveyed or are in complete denial that it exists. If you are the only developer in the room that wishes to be treated with respect, to be autonomous and to (learn to) operate on many levels then it seems like you are really on your own in trying to get these things. Many will continue to eat from the hand that beats them, and won't take the necessary risk to get themselves a better position and to help each other even when one of their team mates decides to make a stand. (I read a lot of your articles and I have to say I have gone DFA before and I will do it again.)

What is really needed is some kind of professional association that fights for our rights. A forward-thinking organisation that has good principles and can't easily be co-opted. Perhaps also a way of accrediting organisations that have great working conditions and a culture of respect. Maybe the only two which hit the list are Valve and Github. But once every cool startup is run like this then larger corporations will have to compete on a cultural level for talent.

I would like for all of us to be able to apply ourselves on a strategic and creative level no matter what our role in a company is.

I wonder who decided that because we implement we should not be allowed to create, design, and think for ourselves? They don't have the right to take this from me, nor do they have the right to take it from you.

The other night I was speaking to a friend who has found herself in a sales position where she is allowed to pitch ideas to clients and see where she can take things. She was happy and felt like she had finally found real freedom. How many of us have been able to grow the network of contacts and future clients required to solve business problems?

We're being held back but we're also holding each other back.

And I now realise you can't solve tribe problems on an individual level.

There has to be a way that we can all work together on this.

Are others interested?

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#63
post #62

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

>> We need to take control of this game. We need to take it back and make it good-- and fast. I have been thinking along these lines as well but I am unsure on what can be done. The real problem here is that our profession contains many shy, socially-awkward types, and guys and girls that were bullied when they were school and haven't fully recovered. Many don't understand how status is conveyed or are in complete de…

I am interested.

I'm pretty sure my largest contribution to software to date has nothing to do with code. I named something: open allocation. Now we've defined terms and we have a banner. My goal with that-- and it's too early to know if I've succeeded-- is to wake people up and realize that their current, micromanaged state of closed allocation is inferior to something that's possible.

We will see an increasing proliferation of open allocation, engineering-driven cultures. (We'll also see pretenders who claim to be OA but aren't. That's unfortunate, but it's just a sign that the good guys are starting to win.) It will take time, as good things always do, but time is on our side.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Altough I agree with you, I still definitely think we are heading towards a future where in order for your code to ship, you will need to be a certified programmer, or have it validated by a certified programmer, at least in some industries. Do you think it is safe, for say, a non certified (read: a guy with no CS degree) programmer to design and code software that runs on an MRI machine ? Or the one which controls a…

The solution to this is testing and required design procedure. Comprehensive, detailed, expensive testing, and comprehensive, detailed, and expensive design documentation and documented procedure. There are currently guidelines for software that goes on medical equipment and airplanes. Airplane software's testing and design procedure gets checked by the FAA. I also know there are comprehensive code coverage requireme…

What you just described is, put simply, to follow engineering principles. Some people would argue that Software Development is not an engineering discipline but a craftsmanship.

And anyways, it would still be a huge scandal if the FAA allowed someone, (or a team of someones) without a degree in CS, to check an airplaine's software. Does this need to be regulated as a law, and thus, recognition of the Software Development discipline as a profession ?

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#65
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this. I feel the same exact way. Every needs programmers but won't respect them. That has been by sentiment at many places I have worked at. At my job, the CTO got on the cover of a magazine that involved tech in government for a mobile app I was hired to design an implement for. The best part is that he had no real hand in the design or implementation of the app nor ever wrote a single line of code in…

The CTO's job is, by description, to get on the cover of a magazine.

As a former CTO, I take some offense to the classification. Granted I am not your average CTO and at all the companies that I was a CTO for I had code that I wrote in production, I was the type of person that worked in the trenches with my guys. If an all nighter had to be pulled because of somebodies screw up, I made sure that the board knew that my guys where cleaning up the mess and the heros of the day. Not in a blame game or glory seeking way but I felt I owed it to my team to ensure the record was straight. I was also the first one to stay all night and the last one to leave in those circumstances. As such my guys where always treated with respect and held out as company assets. What I was good at was translating the business goals into actionable plans for the technical team. Helping technical people see other departments as bringing in the money helps to keep everybody's eye on the prize. The best way to align technical people is to bring them closer to the business and help them "feel" the growth. When they do, they begin to understand the importance of the business. Conversely, making business people understand that technical personnel must have pride of ownership and must be allowed to craft their product helps the business to see that stable and well crafted solutions are long term strategies that work. Just like programmers there are a lot of bad MBA'ed CTO's but for every 100 of them, their is a guy like me that truly understands both sides of the story and can bring them together and that is the true job of a CTO to align the vision of the business with a technical strategy.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#66
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CTO's job is, by description, to get on the cover of a magazine.

As a former CTO, I take some offense to the classification. Granted I am not your average CTO and at all the companies that I was a CTO for I had code that I wrote in production, I was the type of person that worked in the trenches with my guys. If an all nighter had to be pulled because of somebodies screw up, I made sure that the board knew that my guys where cleaning up the mess and the heros of the day. Not in a…

I don't think trying to get on the cover of a magazine takes anything away from what you said. They're not incompatible. If you're a C-level officer, you are part of the face of the company. I'm just pointing out to the OP, that getting on the cover of a magazine likely was part of his CTO's job, so at least that person was doing part of their job.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#67
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former CTO, I take some offense to the classification. Granted I am not your average CTO and at all the companies that I was a CTO for I had code that I wrote in production, I was the type of person that worked in the trenches with my guys. If an all nighter had to be pulled because of somebodies screw up, I made sure that the board knew that my guys where cleaning up the mess and the heros of the day. Not in a…

I don't think trying to get on the cover of a magazine takes anything away from what you said. They're not incompatible. If you're a C-level officer, you are part of the face of the company. I'm just pointing out to the OP, that getting on the cover of a magazine likely was part of his CTO's job, so at least that person was doing part of their job.

Fair enough I miss-read the intent of your message, for that I apologize.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#68

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Nobody took the power from you, you gave it away. There was no defeat because there was no battle.

I've never had to endure any of those things because when they arose, I quit the job. And when they arose again in the next job, I quit employment, and contracted. And when (different) problems appeared with clients, I quit consulting forever and built a hugely revenue-positive product business where I am the reigning monarch and believe me, life is now very, very good.

Nobody can tell me what to do now except the govt and, outside taxes, they really don't give a crap.

If you want power, you have to make it for yourself -- build a business that generates money independent of clients or bosses. One to five big customers (bosses, clients) hold huge power over you -- a thousand small customers hold little power over you. You need to keep em happy, sure, but that's not so hard, because you get to pick your own customers, and you get to choose to keep them happy exactly how you want to. But if one of them's a jerk? Or five of them? Or 100? Tell them to fuck off.

The bottom line is that a person who wants to remain ignorant of the money-making side of business will never hold power. Employment is the opposite of freedom.

(PS — taking investment is just another kind of employment. A kind of debt, really, repaid with control instead of interest.)

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#69

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Ugh. Have some perspective and be grateful for the situation you're in. Seriously. You're sitting at a desk and have enough spare time to post your feelings here. Plenty of people all over the world "add value," sometimes for 14 hrs/day, while making far less than $100,000/year and no benefits. Work is just work. You're in a privileged position and have plenty of leverage to make it better.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#70

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

Nobody took the power from you, you gave it away. There was no defeat because there was no battle. I've never had to endure any of those things because when they arose, I quit the job. And when they arose again in the next job, I quit employment, and contracted. And when (different) problems appeared with clients, I quit consulting forever and built a hugely revenue-positive product business where I am the reigning m…

Totally true. People will never reach the decision making circle until they learn about the money side. And often, they will not have this opportunity until they quit employment to go freelance, or launch their own company.

And here is the fun part: learning about marketing, business models, commercial relations is not that hard for programmers. It just requires a different mindset. For problem solvers like the average geek, that's just another system to hack.

I have only begun recently on this path, but I find it exhilarating! Making my own decisions, talking directly with the clients and -oh, surprise- getting paid for my work, not for sitting at a desk... This is what developers should do!

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