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Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

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Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#31

Post by ataleb52 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

I would agree with you to a certain extent. However I think with how popular startups are becoming and with the number of people wanting to become a "coder"...(which I will shamelessly include myself as trying to become.) were starting to see a shift towards respecting the ability of programmers more and more.

People are slowly starting to realize that "oh crap, these guys can turn the switch off on my "thing" if they wanted to." So people are starting to wake up a little bit.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#32

Post by ramayac »

frozenport wrote: post #12

I like ______________________, but have found that I’m not very good at it professionally, should I get an MBA? I think this is why MBAs are increasingly seen as worthless

Oh man, don't say that :( I'm getting an MBA, because in my country you can't get any decent paying jobs if you don't have any masters degree :/

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#33

Post by darkxanthos »

As a programmer, I don't understand the sentiment in some of these comments. When you're a builder, your job is to control costs (short and long term) while building as rapidly as possible. The returns on cost savings are bounded.

The returns on driving new products has a very high upper bound, if any.

Now some companies hire programmers to be included in that profit driven area of the business, I prefer to work at those places. If you work somewhere where programming is deemed a cost center, well I wouldn't want to work there but I've heard of many companies that have made a sustain able biz out of it.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#35

Post by tocomment »

michaelochurch wrote: post #22
wiradikusuma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the state where the programmer should start his own endeavor i.e. start his own.

I agree, but that's not easy to do. If you're going for VC, you get the same crap from investors. If you're going to bootstrap, that requires an orthogonal skill set in addition to a bit of luck. I think that the 2010s will be dominated by self-started firms that evolve from consulting into product spaces, but most of that activity will not be in the startup hubs (e.g. Silicon Valley, New York, Boston) because the bu…

That's very insightful. A blog post I'd like to read from you: "Finding your X".

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#36

Post by michaelochurch »

sid6376 wrote: post #14
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it. The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell. As softw…

I think we often easily attribute these problems to the "management" types but do start-ups with founders as programmers treat other programmers any better?

That is a good question. I've seen it go both ways.

Part of being a defeated tribe is that you have defectors: young programmers who are tapped for management and change colors. Those are the worst, because they tend to view their older colleagues who are "still programming" as losers and it shows. It may not be politically correct, but I've found the term "Uncle Tom Engineer" to be useful in some cases.

On the other hand, there are true-blue engineers who set up amazing companies, like HP before it was hijacked by MBA types (culminating in the Fiorina disaster) and Valve.

There are also non-engineers who Get It and start great companies. So there's probably a correlation between engineering experience and respect for the craft, but it's not a hard-line distinction.

The problem isn't "businessmen" so much as the attitude that comes with a lot of those folks. It's not what they do that pisses me off-- that's a necessary function-- but the paternalistic management nonsense.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#37

Post by pkorzeniewski »

eksith wrote: post #29

It's called a premature midlife crisis (usually happens right before or at age 30). Some people get over it by dumping their life experience before that point completely while others, like myself, slowly wean off programming onto something else. A friend I've known since high school gave up a very lucrative career as a managing consultant to become... a farmer. Yup, he plants stuff and sells them at a bi-weekly marke…

I think it's generally a good idea to do something you enjoy on the side that could potentially turn into your daily job - in other words an emergency plan for the future ;)

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#38

Post by contingencies »

Broden your perspective: don't program. Give yourself two years. Create social change. Programming might be a means to the end; eating simply on social security might be a means to an end; but showing the government and society where your allegiance lies is priceless. You will have greater respect for yourself, greater respect for your output, and greater associations for it. Break away from industry.

Look at samba, rsync, wikileaks, tor. We can do that. We can do more of that. We don't need the businesses.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#39

Post by darkxanthos »

darkxanthos wrote: post #33

As a programmer, I don't understand the sentiment in some of these comments. When you're a builder, your job is to control costs (short and long term) while building as rapidly as possible. The returns on cost savings are bounded. The returns on driving new products has a very high upper bound, if any. Now some companies hire programmers to be included in that profit driven area of the business, I prefer to work at t…

I forgot to add, this is also the reason I've shifted towards "data science". Still get to code but I also add immensely more value to the business as I experiment to grow profits.

Re: Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore

#40

Post by darkxanthos »

lss456 wrote: post #23
frozenport wrote: post #12

I like ______________________, but have found that I’m not very good at it professionally, should I get an MBA? I think this is why MBAs are increasingly seen as worthless

As a programmer who has gone the MBA route (will be done in the Fall), I have to say it's been positive for me. Not because I can point to it on my resume and say "look what I have!" or "look what I'm getting!", it's been positive for the following reasons: a) It's increased my ability to communicate clearly in small and large groups. b) It's given me great context regarding where IT and programming stand in the over…

This. Programming + business acumen is very valuable.
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